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Okay Ladies, I need some advice ......

8K views 47 replies 21 participants last post by  yawler 
#1 ·
... though I reckon I'll get it from both genders.

Well, talk about strange twists and turns ...

I'm looking at the possibility of working for a woman (who does have sailing experience) as a handyman, while we get to know each other. Not really sure how good of an idea that is though. While it kills two birds with one stone, so to speak, it also seems as though it could put some rather large potholes in the road as well. Mainly in the form of perceptions.

There seems to be general agreement that neither of us is too sure about what we want, and that just becoming friends would be enough. So it would seem, there is no problem with expectations, but my experience from a couple of years ago, leaves me a bit gun shy in the trust department.

So, I come to the Ladies of Sailnet, because, quite frankly, I have no experiences, or knowledge of women in this type of situation, to guide me in this matter. So I'm seeking a woman's perspective (if it makes a difference, it was completely her idea, wouldn't even have occurred to me).
 
#2 ·
I'm going to get slammed for replying (since I'm obviously of the "other" gender), but will anyway.

I don't know you personally John - since we've never met, so I can't advise you in personal matters, especially regarding your hopeful intimate relations. But my observation with this impending arrangement draws a general conclusion - whether right or wrong, it's just one opinion.

It takes a certain type of man who doesn't mind being employed by a woman - while having hopeful amorous intentions for her. As you noted, this could lead to "potholes" in the relationship, IF you're opposed to being submissively subservient.
 
#3 ·
TB - that's what I meant about possible perceptions, and expectations. If it's just a generous offer, without expectations, then I could see doing it, whether it would lead to friendship or something more. And, at this point, my expectations don't go beyond friendship.

While I don't mind being deferential, if it's earned, I am not at all subservient, and can't imagine anything worth being so. So, I know how my head is screwed on, but I'm clueless as to how a woman would view it. Hence my plea for advice. Because my first instinct is too garbled.
 
#4 ·
John - I suspect your "first instinct" is right - the fact that you asked at all indicates that you sense something is off - I distrust relationships that come with roadmaps as this seems to. Am I reading more into the way you presented this than I should? it's not a simple job offer but a job offer with expectation or precondition that you are also going to become closer with her?

I think good relationships grow organically, i.e., you are colleagues who in the course of work discover you have things in common, but no preconditions.

My girl-instinct, FWIW, is skeptical.
 
#5 ·
Yeah, my "radar" isn't working too well on this one. My personality and outlook on life can see it as a generous offer, while my brain tells me it's impractical.

It's not something though, that requires an immediate decision. If it did, I wouldn't do it. Especially after being burned the last time out by one who didn't walk their talk. It's hard for me to doubt people though, without something concrete to base it on.

Anyway, I already told her, it would take knowing her much better before making a decision about it, and that I didn't consider it as part of that process. Your advice though, is helpful, and I appreciate it.
 
#8 ·
Of course, there's that coldly logical side that says ... if it goes anywhere, I'll end up doing the work for free ..... and STILL need a job. ;)

And then there's the side that would feel bad about taking her money and it didn't work out.

Mostly though, I'm just talking outloud, so I don't try to rationalize the whole thing. Since by and large, as tempting as it is, it's not a very good way to build any kind of foundation.
 
#13 ·
And then there's the side that would feel bad about taking her money and it didn't work out.
Uh, John? That whooshing sound you hear? Is that the air rushing past your ears as you fall off a cliff? I'm deliberately taking your sentence out of context to make a point. This sounds a lot like my definition of prostitution (or in your case would that be gigolo-ness?) Is THAT what your radar is sensing is behind her offer?
 
#11 ·
Maybe when I was younger, and a lot dumber and full of hormones norse, but nowdays, that pesky 'ol conscience tends to kick in :)

I'm too aware of the damage that can be done, even if it's not intentional.
 
#14 ·
... though I reckon I'll get it from both genders.

Well, talk about strange twists and turns ...

I'm looking at the possibility of working for a woman (who does have sailing experience) as a handyman, while we get to know each other. Not really sure how good of an idea that is though. While it kills two birds with one stone, so to speak, it also seems as though it could put some rather large potholes in the road as well. Mainly in the form of perceptions.

There seems to be general agreement that neither of us is too sure about what we want, and that just becoming friends would be enough. So it would seem, there is no problem with expectations,...
Yes, you will get advice from both genders...:) And it's worth every cent that you pay for it too!:p

If I distill my understanding of the possible agreement, she has offered you to work for her as a handyman. Additionally, she is not precluding the possibility that "something more" may develop. :cool:

I suggest that you and she come to an agreement as to the terms of the "handyman" (James Taylor inference not intended) relationship. (BTW - is this on land or sea based relationship?) Agree, and document the hourly wage, provision for overtime, cost of materials, travel, etc... Please do not allow yourself to be ...um... taken advantage of in this aspect of the relationship.

With regard to the "something more" - If this develops, great. If not that should be OK by both of you too.

In your position, I would make the default assumption that this is a platonic relationship unless she initates something. I would, however show her the quality of the work that you do, and contrast that to the other hacks that may be in the same field.

Best of luck to ya...

-Ed
 
#15 ·
Why am I thinking of that old Tony Danza sit com? "Hose the Boss" or something like that. :rolleyes:

I say if you want the job, pass on the woman, but if you want the woman, pass on the job. But that's me, not you. However, like you, I do see how it could be somewhat innocent on her part. If she is interested, knows you may have to leave because you need work and she has work, offering you the work is somehwat logical even though it can be construed as paying for the whole package. Interest in a relationship is a binary thing - "friendship to start with" is interest. Just my opinion and possibly worth less than what you paid.
 
#16 ·
The fly in the ointment, is not knowing if it's merely an innocent, generous offer, or "something else", and that won't be known, till I know the lady better. So as I said, this is mostly about thinking outloud.
 
#17 ·
I don't watch Dr. Phil and yet I've caught myself reading this! MUST be the heat! John, you sound like a nice guy... and you sound like you need work...and are a bit lonely. I would tend to follow the rule of "don't dip your pen in the company ink" - I would approach this as a business relationship until proven something else. Do NOT give her a special discount for the work, or if she throws in dinner or the ink well ... I couldn't agree with Ed and Eryka more. I've seen this happen before, women taking advantage of someone to get a bit of work done on the boat. Now, the flip side of this- I hired someone to do some work-we have become friends (friend of my husbands too) and I no longer hire him to do work for me. It was just too easy for my work order to go to the bottom of the list because of being a friend. I didn't get mad, I simply hire someone else. And if you're a nice guy, and you seem to be, the lonely part will take care of itself. Be patient. People are treasures and we stumble across the greatest ones when we aren't digging for them. Wow-if we could only charge like Dr Phil!
 
#18 ·
Well, we've decided to put the issue on the back burner. I do though, get the feeling it was simply an innocent offer, made without thought of expectations, or possible perceptions.

NauticalFishwife - loneliness isn't really an issue with me. Being alone, doesn't automatically make you lonely ;) , but you probably knew that. I'm just aware of how much more rewarding it can be when the adventure is shared.
 
#19 ·
As a boss I always tool my employees that they had to learn to separate friendship from business...When your on my clock I will yell at you if need be and if you give me good cause I will fire you..

But after work I will buy you a beer and you can yell at me all you want..:)
 
#20 ·
Generally, most people have a blind spot when it comes to their own relationships...regardless of how well they deal with other people's relationships.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the input folks. Sometimes you just need to hear things that you're already thinking, said by someone else, rather than rush to judgement on assumptions, that may or may not be accurate.

So, once again, thanks all.
 
#23 ·
Ok John.....comeback..we have 76 more to go...:D
 
#27 ·
Oh ....I've got it now....sounds like a good Idea...would keep dead threads from getting revived also....although some desperately need new life in them im afraid..:rolleyes:
 
#28 ·
John... I agree.. being alone doesn't mean one is lonely. And was really trying to put a bit of a smile on this:) and be encouraging to you. And yes, the adventure IS enriched when shared... soon to celebrate 36 years being married to the same wonderful (saint) guy. I wish you the best...
 
#32 ·
What do you make of the gender bias in the feedback you've gotten so far? All the women seem to be saying "keep the two separate and proceed with caution," while the men seem to be split on whether to go for it or not? Guess that's why you posted your Q on the 'hersailnet' forum. Interesting!
 
#33 ·
I can't see from the feminine side, plain and simple. No matter how much I may understand or be aware, I can only empathize, not know, those things unique to being female. And I am too innately trusting not to accept things on face value, until the full ramifications rear their, often, ugly head.

It may well be, that I simply think too much, and that I worry too much about what is right and fair to others, at the expense of same to myself. Sometimes I'm not sure if it's the more I understand, the less I know, or if it's the more I know the less I understand, or, just simply both.

Two years ago, for the first time in my life, I cut down the safety net, before walking out on the highwire, and learned, I don't bounce. And now, I don't know if there's enough left, to walk back out there again, but know I have to. Yet, I don't want to drag somebody else down, if I fall again. I'm too aware of the responsibility, of not doing to another, what was done to me. Sometimes, it's just damn hard to leave a clean wake.

Yet, it wasn't confirmation, nor affirmation that I sought. From either side of the gender fence. I sought rather, a prism through which to focus my own thinking. And that is just what I got from the variety of responses.
 
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