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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-15-2008 11:36 PM
82sabre wow that is unbelievable
06-15-2008 11:32 PM
Sabreman I came across this boat a couple of years ago while in Honolulu. Blew me away!!!! Sorry that I can't post a photo directly - never have been able.

BOAT OF SHAME - Honolulu, HI
06-14-2008 07:55 AM
cardiacpaul I think he NEEDS to go with the marine ply...
in S.Florida, it rains... almost every G&^ D&^% day.. The humidity here is off the scale. (8AM, 76%, if I wasn't for the bikinis, I'd think I was in Seattle) Even if he seals other wood products like a duct taped hefty bag, it'll separate VERY quickly.
06-13-2008 11:29 PM
Sabreman Now that I think about it a bit further, I think that 10b contradicts sailingdog's comment about hard spots on the hull. I wasn't sure why Sabre had the gap, now I know why. I figured that if I made an exact replacement and attached it exactly as did Sabre, that would be good enough for me. I hereby respectfully withdraw 10b. I like the foam idea and would probably use it if I had to do it again.
06-13-2008 11:22 PM
Sabreman I finally got the Head Rebuild photos posted to my site. The link follows.

S/V Victoria Head Reconstruction

My wife is the one who convinced my to not worry about using marine plywood. Her attitude is that there should be NO moisture intrusion, so I really didn't need to worry about waterproof glue in the wood. Put that way, it made sense since moisture the problem in the first place and Sabre used marine ply. If you buy furniture grade ply, there will be many plies and no voids. I use it extensively in my furniture.

As for the size of the piece of plywood and the size of the companionway, we have a smallish companionway and the sheet of ply was about 5' tall and 3' wide. I had no problem getting it inside the boat, but I suppose that it's possible. At one time, I had the illusion that I could cut out the bad stuff and scarf in a good piece of ply. I ended up replacing the whole thing because a splice seemed so wrong.
06-13-2008 09:24 PM
82sabre Wow, thanks for all these replies I just now got on to check the site, we have been down in the belly of the beast all day just trying to clean it out a bit to make the time spent down there a little more pleasant, we are probably going to start on the real work very soon. Any and all input is greatly appreciated so keep it coming! We are most likely going with marine ply, if we properly rebed the chainplates there will be no water coming in to worry about rot in the first place.
06-13-2008 05:00 PM
sailingdog A better alternative to a solid fiberglass bulkhead is to make a cored bulkhead, with solid laminate in the sections where the chainplate fittings are. That would be lighter and stronger than a plywood bulkhead, yet as rot-proof as a solid-fiberglass bulkhead. It would also be fairly easy to make in whatever size you required, and piecing sections together to make the entire bulkhead would be rather simple.
06-13-2008 04:51 PM
Jeff_H The only comments that I would make on Sabreman's great post is:

You can not always get a big enough piece of plywood through the companionway to do the whole bulkheadand so you may need to laminate the bulkhead ou of multiple pieces of plywood, half of the thickness of the bulkhead, with their butt joints perhaps a foot or so staggered, and thoroughly glued.

I would strongly suggest using marine plywood since the primary difference is that non-marine plywood has more voids and these are a source of rot and structural failure on a bulkhead with fastenings, and high loads.

The problem with using a fiberglass bulkhead, besides expense and aesthetics is the weight which would be several times the weight of the same thickness wood.

06-13-2008 04:46 PM
hellosailor Ugh, nasty.

I would consider replacing the bulkhead with same thickness FIBERGLASS not wood, for the simple reason that plastic just CAN'T rot the same way, ever. Places like McMaster and Grainger sell it up to an inch thick, theonly question is whether they have sheets big enough to replace the whole bulkhead in one piece. And then, apply veneer or other facing over it to make it look proper.

If you can't find plastic, I'd use an epoxy penetrant or something similar to (again) make sure that problem simply never can happen again.

I wonder if anyone makes zirc fittings for chainplate deck mounts?

On the bright side--that's still a cheap price for a Sabre!
06-13-2008 04:45 PM
sailingdog Don't get the fast hardener if the temps are above 70˚F.

8... the bulkhead should have a slight gap between it and the hull. If it is touching, it can create a hard spot where the hull laminate will flex against. The space between the bulkhead and the hull should be filled with a bit of polyureathane foam—divinylcell or Airex are good choices.

As for 10b
... if you can leave a nice 1" radius cove bead along the edge of the bulkhead instead of removing all the epoxy, it will help the roving stick better and lay more cleanly along the edge. Fiberglass doesn't do well with tight-radius corners or hard edges.

Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
SEMIjim - Yeah, it was me that replaced the bulkhead on my Sabre 38. As an aside, my heart stopped since my last boat was a 1982 Sabre 28. I thought, oh my gawd, what did they do to my boat?! Fortunately, it's not the same, I can tell from the photos.

Ok, here goes.

1. Take a deep breath, it's not as bad as it looks. I had the same situation when we bought Victoria, our 38. The whole job took about 25 hours.
2. Take pictures during deconstruction so that you know where everything goes. Carefully remove all the trim and mark where they go on the reverse side. Save the vinyl hull covering too. Remove the chainplate hardware. If the mast is still up, use a halyard as a temporary stay.
3. Remove the shelving, DO NOT rip it out. You'll use all the plywood as a template. Basically, you'll have to unscrew the mounting cleats from wherever they're attached. Note that Sabre used resorcinol to glue the cleats to the plywood, so you'll have to pry them apart. SAVE THE SCREWS
4. Once the bulkhead is exposed on both sides, you'll need to detach it from the hull. Use a heavy duty cordless drill with a dry wall routing bit (the kind used to cut out receptacle boxes) to cut away the tabbing. I used a single bit, but have a spare ready in case it breaks. This is heavy work so wear hearing protection and a dust mask. Lay the drill parallel to the hull and slip the bit into the tabbing and work from the deck down along the hull. It's slow going, but will work.
5. Extract the bulkhead in as complete a piece as possible. Save all large pieces of plywood.
6. I used Lowe's exterior ply. NOT the nasty underlayment, but the 6 ply stuff. You don't have to worry too much about using marine plywood since YOU WILL keep your chainplates well sealed after this job. You'll probably need teak marine plywood because the bulkhead is exposed (min was in the head and formica covered). There are many sources.
7. Lay the nasty templates on the new plywood and carefully trace the outline. Cut with a jig saw to the line and make clean cuts. The bulkhead side doesn't have to be too fair, but definitely plane the exposed edges smooth. Use a plane and not a file - you'll get a much better job.
8. The hull edge of the bulkhead doesn't have to fit the contour exactly, but should be within a 1/8"-1/4". Tabbing will fix the rest.
9. Lay protective plastic and cardboard everywhere. I should have written this at the beginning, but you'll need it now.
10. Buy West Epoxy and fast set hardener. Buy heavy woven roving (WM Model #: 154013), NOT mat. Cut a continuous strip as long as the hull to bulkhead edge and about 8" wide. You need at least 4" lap on the hull and bulkhead on BOTH sides
10a. Attach the bulkhead to the deck and/or any cabinetry with screws to hold it in place during tabbing.
10b. I should have done this step, but didn't..... Mix West collidial silca filler with epoxy to make a paste and use as a temporary glue to attach the bulkhead to the hull along the hull edge of the bulkhead. Note that you MUST remove the squeeze-out. There can be NO lumps that impeded the roving layup. This is easily accomplished by taking a putty knife and pulling it along the bulkhead/hull edge, removing the excess putty. One pass on each side should do it.
11. Completely saturate the roving while laid flat on the plastic covering on the floor. Use gloves. Pick up an end and quickly transfer to the bulkhead/hull. It will be a dripping mess, so practice first while dry. Roll out with a resin roller. Make sure that there are NO bubbles.
12. Wipe up any excess dripping resin. DO NOT leave the job until the resin sets up. It could be a mess otherwise. Do not overwork the roll out as the resin sets, or it will begin to pull up. Basically just roll it out when you first lay it.
13. Reattach the shelving, etc. You'll probably want to pre-finish the wood with your choice of finish (I used satin urethane). Reattach trim using the legend that you wrote on each piece.
14. Reattach the hardware, redrilling the chainplate holes and SEALING the deck where the chainplates pass through. 3M 4200 works well

I think that I covered everything. I'll post a link in a few hours to photos of my job. It came out great and is SOLID; as good or better than the original.

You can do it if you are reasonably skilled with tools. Take your time. Buy the tools that you need and do not try to save money. Buy the best materials. Be neat, cleaning up after each session. You're already saving a bundle and this isn't the place to save a buck.

Good luck.
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