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|10-31-2009 09:41 AM
Did not get much feedback on this one, no Prout sailors on Sailnet ?
Originally Posted by djeeke
Talking about Prout, any Prout owners care to comment on the Quest 33, Snowgoose 34 and Event 34 ? Since these boats are mostly around the same budget (Event a bit higher), are there big differences? Any model to be preferred ?
I'll make it easier, I'll add in a few models and take the event out
Prout Quest 31
Prout Quest 33
Prout Snowgoose 34
Prout Snowgoose 35
Any feedback / comparison would be appreciated, also if you prefer one specific one out of these, tell us why
I do understand from previous feedback that the Snowgooses have a big tendency to hobbyhorse, is this also true for the Quest ?
|10-26-2009 07:35 AM
I was pointed out to a Proto Erector 34 catamaran listed at 32000 Euro, as you can see the ad does not list much, neither are there any pictures...
I have contacted the owners and have obtained some pics, here are two of them :
This will not be a cruising cat for us....
If anybody is interested, I can forward all the pictures... (no interior pics)
|10-11-2009 11:19 AM
I nominate it for a giant plant holder!
|10-10-2009 01:53 PM
Star Trek shuttle? Is that a monohull or catamaran?
|10-10-2009 07:29 AM
Hi all !
If someone is up to a major project (too much for me to handle) ...
I have found another Aristocat for sale in France.
As far as I understand it is an unfinished project which has been abandoned some time ago...
Transoms extended by 3 ft and 2 Yanmar 1GM10 engines on saildrives have been installed, boards have been replaced by keels and it has a raised cabintop. The interior is almost empty. Rudders not fixed on the new transoms, engine conducts to install (fuel lines, cooling water, exhaust, ...)
The owner has a recent (French) survey report available. (I have recieved a copy) The surveyor made an estimate on the value of the boat, this is way too high !!! Therefore the current asking price is way too high too as the seller will find out should someone interested show up...
If interested, send me a PM, I can forward the survey report and the seller's details, if required I can translate...
But expect a lot of work on this one...
|10-05-2009 07:12 AM
Another boat missing in this thread ...
The Aristocat... This is an old ad of one already sold but it has good pictures...
It certainly looks like it is a low budget Cat with cruising capabilities...
Not sure about slapping / bridgedeck height (as they are related somewhere with the Gemini's?)...
One negative point I find is the very narrow passage forward, even obstructed by the boards... (but some were built with keels)
I love the big sliding hatch (maybe because I have one on my own boat )
Has anyone been on one ?
Can you comment on sailing capabilities?
I read they are quite good performers.
We would like to have a look at one to make up our own mind on the designs so if someone happens to know one that would be for sale we would like to hear from it...
I know there is one listed for sale with a custom dog house but the brokers are not up to date, I have already been in direct contact with the owner...
|09-29-2009 09:02 PM
Unfortunately, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Hope you have better experiences going forward.
|09-29-2009 06:55 PM
Ocean Winds 33
Hi guys !
This thread seems to die when I'm not around, we spent some time visiting hospitals and doctors ...
Then we saw an ad for a 33ft Ocean Winds Catamaran, listed at 45000Euro ...
By the ad we were led to believe the boat was in reasonable condition, It had recieved two brand new engines two years ago, it had just been out of the water for an antifouling, the deck had been repainted etc...
So off we went, booked a week in Sardinia to go and see the boat...
Where we saw the boat was in terrible shape !!!
Yes it did have new engines, only 3.5 hours, started by the owner without even checking the oil levels (and the boat had not left its mooring for ages)
Yes the deck had been repainted but without anti-skid (plain dangerous, extremely slippery when wet) so obviously the deck needed another repainting with anti-skid...
We went for a test-sail...
No wind instruments operational, display broken...
No boat speed on the log... Depth OK
The owner did not even know how to power up the compass (which seemed to function)
Autopilot not operational
radio non operational
Impossible to fully hoist the main sail (mast slide issue ?)
running rigging in terrible condition requires replacement
problems furling and unfurling the genoa
3 of the 4 deck selftailing winches were not operational, very old winches (Telo 160, 200 and 220) who will need replacement (the working one was already a newer winch, Lewmar 16, too small for this boat, main halyard winch is on the mast)
Sails in bad condition, they had been left on boom and forestay for 4 years instead of being taken of and stored inside... Genoa needed restitching, main maybe too but both sails required a big cleaning job...
Although the rigging had been replaced 4 years ago the attachments to the chainplates requires attention
Owner not aware how the GPS operates, I had my own GPS with me...
When we returned the owner gave me the keys so I could inspect the boat at my own pace.
Fuel smell inside the boat, port fuel tanks were sitting in diesel and apparently already since a long time (fuel hoses, repainting of bilge and fuel tanks
The boat needs a full electric rewiring, household wiring had been used, contacts corroded, log on nav station completely disconnected...
No separate house batteries installed (removed when the new engines were installed)
solar panels not operational
The rudder on starboard side was cracked (for how long?) and requires a big job done...
When we looked at the engines, they obviously looked nice but under the port engine there was water after the test sail, not before ! Where is the leak ???
The fridge not operational on 12V, not operational on gas, mains not tested...
Water gas heater burns, impossible to change the temperature setting.
All rubber gas hoses to be replaced.
Owner was unable to tell us how to light the oven so we don't know if this was functional (guess it's OK)
Owner was unable to explain how to operate the holding tank, head set to 'sea' position and I could not move it to the holding tank position (maybe by trying harder) so I guess these vanes require replacement, how to empty the holding tank ?
Windlass requires overhaul...
and so on...
Needless to say we were not so happy... Owner told us not to deduct all the repair costs from the asking price...
While we were in the harbour the boat got hit by a cowboy in a motor boat !!! We informed the owner who came to the boat and repaired the bow with a gelcoat repair kit left there by the previous owner, without proper cleaning/degreasing etc... We were astonished by his attitude, there were two witnesses on board of his boat when this happened and still he just did a quick and dirty fix...
Anyway, we left home and started to search for repair estimates, certainly a lot of work but might do a lot ourselves trying to keep the price down. (my wife really loved the layout of the boat and that counts)
We then got a message from the owner to look at the ad, he dropped the asking price by 20.000 so was now asking 25.000 for the boat.
We thought this was a reasonable price and replied asking him if he would reserve the boat while we arranged for a survey, we stated we would pay the asking price if the structure was sound (no delamination or osmosis)...
We kept on exchanging some messages and he even proposed himself to phone the yard to provide me a quote.
By today I agreed with a surveyor I would give him a job. We needed to schedule a hauling with a shipyard.
And I now just got an e-mail stating the boat has been sold
I sincerely hope that whoever is buying Atreyu, a 1980 Ocean Winds 33 will read this post so they know the boat they bought is NOT seaworthy and is a lot of time and money away from being so... Whoever this is, feel free to contact me !
The owner has proven he can not be trusted so there might even be a lot more issues than what I already found, after all, I'm not a surveyor...
Needless to say we are really disappointed ...
It was not for now...
The right boat will come ...
|08-05-2009 06:36 AM
I ran across your thread and thought I should comment on the Polycon cat so you will have a better understanding of these boats.
Polynesian Concept Catamarans was founded by actor Buddy Ebsen at the beginning of the 70’s
The Polycon 37 was an enlarged and somewhat reworked development of Buddy's original 35' Polynesian Concept that won the multihull class on corrected time in the 1968 TransPac. She also smashed the Isle Of Whyte course record the following year. she was old-school cold-molded, built over a male destructive, just like Ken Murphey's Aikani, or Jim Arness' Seasmoke
Polycons are a C/S/K design, principally Rudy Choy, and the only one of his designs having symmetrical hulls. Warren Seamen, creator of the Malibu Cat, who along with Alfred Kumalai had built Polynesian Concept, did some of the engineering and Schock boats built the female tooling and the first 6 boats. These boats had internal spade rudders, polyester resin, and lower quality coring materials than the boats that came after, but were still ok as they were hand-laid by experienced crews. The boat you showed for $55,000 early in the thread, is a Schock-built Polycon. It has been butchered by adding those two heavy, smelly lumps of iron to each hull, and the drag of two props attached to them – rendering it useless as a beach cat - what a waste!
There were an additional 6 boats built in Santa Ana, California in a facility Buddy leased. The glass team was lead by Englishman Jack Holmes - an absolute expert in hand layup. These boats were not all completed on site. A
few were delivered as partially completed 'kits' , though all the critical work was still done in-shop.
I own Invictus , she is hull #10, and has externally-hung high-aspect rudders. She is essentially a 37'6" 6,000lb beach cat, with 2 heads, a galley, and can support a racing crew of 7, or week-long cruses with 4.
Hull is hand-laid glass over Airex PVC core & vinylester resin, and she has African mahogany in her keels to strengthen her for regular beaching. Daggerboards are laminated African mahogany and Shagbark Hickory, with Triax carbon skins.
Internal elemental structures are the same as with all C/S/Ks - 4 hollow-core laminated marine plywood/cedar bulkheads paired into 2 'super-boxes' - Resorcinol glue and bronze ship-nails are used in the assembly of the wood structures, which are then glassed into place. Even by today’s standards, this makes a very light, rigid structure.
Contrary to some assumptions made elsewhere in this thread, these are blue-water performance boats. They come from a design heritage that began with the lovely Manu Kai - built right on Waikiki beach in 1947. She survived 48 years of beach charter work in the open waters there, and the C/S/K boats that followed her set every open Pacific course record there was, as well as a double-handed ‘round the world record.
The Polycons have high bridgedeck clearance so they don't pound in a seaway like modern cruising cats do. They have plenty of reserve buoyancy in their bows, and narrow/fine hull profiles with plenty of rocker along the keel line. These are classic Pacific Voyaging Canoe features that adapt the boats well to big wave motion.
Having said all this, now for the down side . . . every boat is a trade off. Polycons are not beginner boats if you intend to push them. They don't have the beam, weight, and frac rig of the modern behemoth cruising cats, so they can become a real handful to the uninitiated in moderate to heavy air. You have to think way ahead. They accelerate like a squid, and can easily be pushed to reckless speeds. If you overtake waves to quickly with apparent wind behind your ears, sooner or later you will boneyard the boat. Stabbing the bows of a 37' cat through the back of a large wave at 18-20 knots is just begging for trouble. The other thing is weight. They don't like it. If you must take potted palms, bicycles and the dumbell set aboard with you, the Polycon is not the boat. And lastly, the space issue; These boats could accurately be classified as 'sportboats' before there was ever such a classification - Basic amenities without performance compromise. By today’s cat standards, this is more like a 32' boat that a 37' boat below. There is ample headroom, but forget about the 4 double staterooms. That only comes with chubby hulls and 4-5 times the weight.
Other trivia -
Polycons were designed for single auxiliary 35hp XX-longshaft outboard, or a small single fixed engine with retracting drive leg. These are placed below the center of the cockpit, under a hatch. The fuel was also down in the fresh air under the bridgedeck in a protected alcove. There is no fuel or machinery inside the boat or cockpit.
Under auxiliary power, my boat with 45hp Honda & hydrodynamic extension cruises at 12 knots and has a top speed in calm water of 16 knots. Between 4and 9 knots, the engine cannot be heard, nor is there any perceptible vibration below.
Old war stories -
Invictus finished 2nd behind bob Hanel's 63' catamaran Double Bullet in the 1979 Newport To Ensenada Race. There were almost 600 boats in the fleet.
I am aware of three TransPac races that included Polycons, and one made the California-Hawaii crossing 4 times.
This is a good boat for:
A couple that is physically fit, and grew up racing beach cats or one-design dinghies.
Local races, Pacific passage Races.
3-10 day cruises for two couples or a couple with 1-2 kids.
People who want to experience what 'Jed Clampit', Marshall Dillon, and their Hawaiian surfer buddies were so excited about.
Best of luck on finding your perfect boat - I've found mine.
|07-29-2009 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by djeeke
I'm actually going to Holland tomorrow and I hope to have a look at a Sagitta
Will try to give my feedback about the boat...
The boat pictures I got from the owner do not represent the current state at all, as far as I am concerned this one requires a major overhaul...
I guess the pictures are a bit dated...
I also believe it has been pushed hard as the owner told me they only reefed in a gale ("I sailed her without reef up to 7 Bft")...
I don't know what Richard recommendations are but not reefing in a near gale sounds to me as pushing the boat...
Too bad, it was well withing budget reach...
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