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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-06-2008 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Hey ...remember back during WWII when charcoal burners in cars were around....shoot fire up the BBQ pipe it to the engine and motor on out of the marina...
..chased by greenies on electric jet-skis brandishing carbon credits!

But isn't that what CD does now?!? I'm sure I've seen a photo around here someplace...
08-06-2008 12:34 AM
Stillraining Hey ...remember back during WWII when charcoal burners in cars were around....shoot fire up the BBQ pipe it to the engine and motor on out of the marina...
08-05-2008 11:06 PM
vadimgo Wasn't it about the boat fuel?

So, the best we have so far for inboard is diesel, from what you guys wrote...

From what I see around, the "GAS" (either metane or propane/butane versions) question is answered differently in different countries according to the way markets and/or goverments regulate the price. Another queston is availability. The natural gas is not coming here by the tanker from Saudies, but rather by pipe and from Canada at worst. So if we live to see israelies bombing Tehran, it is quite possible that LNG and canola oil would be the only fuel both for my boat and car. Other that that, in the great US of A gasoline is soo affordable, once I am at the marina, the price to fill the sailboat's outboard tank would not become an issue for me any time soon. The drive from home is a bit different story, but again, I do not drive an american car.
As of the other options, both greener and possibly cheaper, this discussion is not even scratching the surface.
Yes, it is really complicated, and yes, unfortunatelly, the way the political machine is working, we will not see any reasonable solution any time soon, regardless of whether it will be an old boy or black boy
08-05-2008 09:37 PM
sailingdog CP-

can you move the hand up and to your left about four inches...that will improve the photo since your face will be covered almost completely.
08-05-2008 09:24 PM
cardiacpaul Lost it? I don't even know what "it" was, much less where to find "it"

the other things... thecuban has them in her purse.

08-05-2008 08:47 PM
Classic30 I think CP has finally lost it...
08-05-2008 08:29 PM
cardiacpaul well,
thanks for ruinin' it for us.

With our best sailing days behind us, our fantasies turned to a great big-o (thats the International Southern Unit of Measurement) Weenie-bang-o, AKA the mobile passion pit to travel around our fair nation, visiting almost every wal-mart parking lot from key west to Spokane. nice... thanks...

Due to the "crisis" that is gas and diesel prices, the cost of one of these trailers on wheels is dropping thru the floor. Literally, one can buy an 8 yr old, 35ft unit with less than 100k miles for less than 25k. Figuring on 6-8 mpg, a tank full of diesel would run you 600-700 miles, or gas, 5-600 miles. We'll strap a crotch rocket to the front and or back, and be like an armadillo-turtle, slow and stupid, but carrying our home on our back. We'll visit relatives (3 day max rule applies), harass strangers, drive 50mph in the left lane with Conway blarin' out of the 8 track...Take up two lanes, and park... where ever the damn hell we please. Got a problem with it? I'm deaf too, deal with it. LOL. We may even get a yappin' lil excuse for a dawg just to pizz people off.

Max time frame? 2 yrs. I'm clippin' coupons for Dollywood and Branson right now.

I wonder If I can solar-stik it?
08-05-2008 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Until this country gets more renewable, low-pollution, electrical generation sources up and running, electric cars aren't going to be a solution.
I suppose there's always nuclear.

Stick an RTG undre the bonnet, connect up the wires and no emissions (not of the carbon kind, anyway) and no refuelling for the next tens years or so...

What could possibly be better than that?!?
08-05-2008 02:39 PM
sailingdog One other problem with electric cars is that—at least in the US, where a majority of the powerplants are fossil fuel burning, and a large percentage of that is coal-powered—is that electric cars don't really eliminate any pollution, they merely shift it from many small point sources, the individual cars, to a much larger point sources, the power plants.

Until this country gets more renewable, low-pollution, electrical generation sources up and running, electric cars aren't going to be a solution.

BTW, I've worked with some of the people who did a lot of the original work on non-polluting and low-emissions automotive powerplant technology... and from all of them, the best fuel for an automobile is still GASOLINE. It has a relatively high energy density and burns relatively cleanly. The biggest problem is that most cars, with the exception of some of the newer hybrids are designed to run almost as inefficiently as possible. Most cars only require 20-25 HP to move at highway speeds. The only real time additional power is necessary is when the vehicle is accelerating up to those speeds—but that means that most cars have 130+ HP engines that are really only needed for about 5-10% of the time you're actually driving.
08-05-2008 02:14 PM
hellosailor I don't know how gasoline and other fuels overtook each other a hundred years ago, but there was an automobile "industry" way before there were many non-military aircraft up there.

Diesel remains problematic now and may be even more so in the future. In the US it has been essentially off the car market for years because of the particulates in the emissions. I know, a couple of exotic afterburner/catalyst technologies are supposed to bring it back--we'll see how or if that works. Diesel also works out better under constant load, which isn't the situation with passenger cars. So I've got nothing against diesel (well, except for the noise and sitnk) but will be surprised to see it become king.
Right now the most promising, most mature, and most economically viable "solution" to our fuel shortages is synthetic fuel, made from coal or from garbage. Both processes are proven (Hitler ran his war machine on synfuel from coal), both have copious amounts of feedstock that don't demand using up food stocks, and both are economically viable at $5/gallon (US prices, ignoring the tax-inflated EU prices) which is close to where we are.
Electric cars? Nope, still need a battery technology miracle, that's been waiting for 100 years. Hydrogen cars? Again, needing a technology miracle (gobs of power for the manufacture) which MIT may or may not have touched. Everyone promises a miracle...but if we'd just ban the casual private ownership of 6,000 pound vehicles and start using what already works and can be distributed without modifications...That's where I'd place my bets for the way things will settle out.
To me the only question--absent a technological miracle--is how the Saudis will play this. I think they'll keep gasoline [oil] prices down just below the point where synfuels become economically viable, for as long as they can. Once they let it get competitive, someone will invest the billions in new plants. And THEN, I fully expect the Saudis to drop their prices, send the synfuel makers into bankruptcy, buy up the assets at a dime on the dollar, and get back into the routine business of Machiavellian politics, which they have played SO WELL for SO LONG.

Maybe my local Nooze sources are all Republican Stooges...but I hear the top Democratic presidential candidate is now making an ass of himself by saying that if we all inflate our tires and do a few other tiny things, we can solve the fuel problem. Inflate our tires?? Talk about a two percent solution...Not that the Other Guy, dreaming of offshore drilling and stopgaps that wouldn't come online for a decade, is doing any better.

I don't see any miracles, or big changes here. Just business as usual. And, perhaps, some radical common sense in places like Utah, where they are looking at a mandated 4-day workweek to reduce commuting by a fast 20%.
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