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qualifying to " view " boat for sale

10K views 58 replies 38 participants last post by  OutThere 
#1 ·
Today I made inquiry on a vessel for sale of a broker & was questioned about my qualifications sailing before making an appointment for an associate of mine to view the boat before I traveled 2000 miles for the same purpose . Having observed the moronic , I felt compelled to point out the obvious & informed the broker that my critical mass qualification for our purposes was that I was a prospective buyer & that he & the owner should realize that when you put a boat on the market....people will want to view it . Has anyone else here experienced this sort of screening from a broker ????
 
#4 ·
I had a couple that totally ignored me when I called or wrote once they found I was on the East Coast and wanted to see vessels that were on the West coast. End result, I found a different broker that had no such concerns, I flew out, viewed the boat and bought it. The broker that ignored me had to split the commission.
 
#5 ·
Kjango,

Please tell me the broker's name! He sounds like my kind of person!

Having put up with the following:

1. A guy so old he had to be helped onto the boat.
2. A guy who had never owned a sailboat.
3. A guy who didn't know 'you could make yer own 'lectricity on a boat
4. A couple who 'had sailed Sunfish a couple of times'
5. A quartet of Frenchmen who spoke not one word of English, and no translator with them
6. A couple who poked into every cabinet, then got me distracted to inspect the engine room for a few minutes...when they left, I noticed our hand-held GPS was missing...
7. A couple from Kansas who wanted me to take them out so they could find out how the boat rode in Biscayne Bay--for free! No agreement to buy, no earnest money, no nothing. (BTW, I told them I'd be happy to take them out on Biscayne Bay for four hours, $125.00 per person, minimum four people, BYOB. That cooled their jets in a hurry.)
8. To be crude: a couple who were both as big around as they were tall, and who couldn't even sit at the main salon table

I would be tickled pink if the broker at least got some kind of idea what kind of boat someone really wants/needs. I'm so sick of getting the boat ready to show and then the people who show up, look at the 71 foot mast and spend the next five minutes catching flies with their mouths, I could scream!

The problem is, as I've said elsewhere, that a broker is a salesman. Neither the buyer's broker or the seller's broker have the boat owner's best interests in mind. At least it sounds like this guy is trying to screen people. That's a d*** sight better than our group. Maybe you feel insulted. I wouldn't. He's just trying to spare everyone from wasted time, money and effort.
 
#9 ·
Kjango,

Please tell me the broker's name! He sounds like my kind of person!

Having put up with the following:

2. A guy who had never owned a sailboat.
Ask the broker who sold me my boat about this. I had never owned a boat before, just like you and everyone else in the world unless you are born with your boat attached to you. I went to look at the boat, bought the survey from a month earlier from a guy who passed on it, took it for a spin, and handed him a check two days later. My buying process took all of five days from first sight. Those are my "qualifications".

I hope this broker said, "let me ask you a few things about what kind of boat you are looking for" or maybe, "what kind of sailing do you plan on doing". If he comes right out of the box and say "what are your qualifications to be a prospective buyer of this boat?", you bet bet your ass I'd close my check book and go look at another boat without a second thought.

The boat may be "the one", but I'm not giving my money to someone I don't want to do business with. I've excercised my market power like that a few times. Do you think I'm going to part with 100K (or whatever your boat costs)and deal with your smug personality.....no way.

BTW, you aren't looking to purchase Maltese Falcon are you? You may need to present some "qualifications" for that one.

Maltese Falcon
 
#6 ·
I'm going to have to side with Gary1 on this... while it may not be the broker's right to ask certain types of questions, it would be a good idea to qualify the buyer in certain respects.
 
#7 ·
Though I see both sides, the reality here (and we are talking reality) is that you cannot qualify someone over the phone without pulling SS numbers and a credit check, etc with a bank account and 2 years tax returns... etc.

I could really care less if they have ever sailed before. That is their problem. They are adults (hopefully). If they want to go drop a large sum of money into a boat purchase without a lot of credentials - let them. My parents bought their boat without EVER owning any boat of any kind and their sailing experience was limited to an ASA 101 and many weekends with me and the family. Their first purcahse: A Tayana Vancouver 42. In essense, it does happen.

Now, I think the other broker (Buyers broker) should go through the steps of simple pre-qualifying to make sure they can afford the boat. That might be nice, eh?

- CD
 
#11 ·
For what it's worth:

When I was looking at boats that were far away from me, I would contact a local surveyor and ask what they would charge to contact the broker and arrange for a quick walk through (with digital camera in hand). This kept me anonymous and quickly let me know if it was a boat I should even consider. At least 75% of the boats I had someone look over were disqualified and saved me the travel expense & hassle.

Another option is to contact a different broker in the area, and have them do the same, telling them you will use then as a buyers broker.
 
#12 ·
Ask the broker who sold me my boat about this. I had never owned a boat before, just like you and everyone else in the world unless you are born with your boat attached to you. I went to look at the boat, bought the survey from a month earlier from a guy who passed on it, took it for a spin, and handed him a check two days later. My buying process took all of five days from first sight. Those are my "qualifications".

I hope this broker said, "let me ask you a few things about what kind of boat you are looking for" or maybe, "what kind of sailing do you plan on doing". If he comes right out of the box and say "what are your qualifications to be a prospective buyer of this boat?", you bet bet your ass I'd close my check book and go look at another boat without a second thought.

The boat may be "the one", but I'm not giving my money to someone I don't want to do business with. I've excercised my market power like that a few times. Do you think I'm going to part with 100K (or whatever your boat costs)and deal with your smug personality.....no way.

------------------------------
I agree with Sapper:
If you wouldn't do business with that style of broker, move on to someone who is more personable. They owe aligiance to only the seller anyway. Always remember : it is YOUR money you are spending. If you wouldn't trust that broker with your dog, don't hand over any money in commission.

Gary1 :
If you don't like people bothering you to see your boat, don't sell it yourself - use a broker like the OP describes. I assume you didn't want to sell it very quickly, did you?
There are numerous sailboats on the market from brokers who have more class than others.

Sail on ...
 
#13 ·
I am kind of in the middle on this one. First...the prospective BUYER was not the one going to inspect the boat. It was an associate.
Brokers get lots of inquiries that come to nothing especially since the advent of yachtworld and other internet services. They often have to travel some distance to show a boat. They have a right to "qualify" the seriousness of intent of prospective buyer. As a seller, I don't want everyone who walks down the dock and likes my boats looks to get a tour. I expect my broker to screen prospective buyers somewhat and I expect they have to manage their time efficiently and not waste it on "lookie-loo's".
That said...I don't want serious folks screened out or turned off by insulting or stupid questions. If someone from California called and told my broker they wanted to send a friend to look at my boat...and my boat was an hour away from the broker...I would not be upset if my broker told them that he only shows to actual clients, or their surveyors but that their friend was welcome to go view the boat and take exterior photos.
On the other hand...that is why my boat is AT my broker's place...so that it is no big deal to show it.
So...I think pre-qualifying is just fine as long as it is done in a customer friendly manner and that the benefit of any doubt goes to the customer.
 
#15 ·
As a seller, I don't want everyone who walks down the dock and likes my boats looks to get a tour. I expect my broker to screen prospective buyers somewhat and I expect they have to manage their time efficiently and not waste it on "lookie-loo's".
Speaking of which, I was down at Crusader, right next to Rogue Wave, not too long ago. I put on a blazer, captains hat, and grabbed a snifter of brandy and a pipe. I went into Rogue Wave and put on my best English accent, they let onto Cam completely unsupervised. I took a mean poo and didn't flush:D :D . I returned to the office and proclaimed the vessel didn't meet my rigorous standards. Suckers!!!

(just kidding about the poo, but you do have some barnacles on the prop)
 
#14 ·
Well, reading the comments here most everyone has valid points on both sides. The problem isn't the prequalifing of the customer. The more expensive the toy the more qualifying your going to find. The owner and broker do not want everyone who wants a look trapezing through their boat. I say "their boat" because the broker bares some responsibility when they take the listing. The broker has a time value cost associated also. The broker probably has more than one boat they have to show located in various places.

The prospective buyer on the other hand doesn't want to be interrogated or have their credibility challenged. Unfortunately there are some people who have way to much time on their hands and like to waste that of others creating frustration leading to this type of treatment.

The problem becomes the quality of the broker and their professionalism and sales ability. There are tactful ways to gather the necessary information that a good broker can use to sell the prospective buyer.

The broker in question if proceeded as the OP writes, was not vary professional and paid for it in the end.
 
#17 ·
Looks clean, a few barnacles aside. I did take pics of the prop just to mess around with you about it, but I must have deleted them for some stupid reason. I didn't go aboard, but they do have her out by the front fence for max exposure (as much as you could expect from that small road). She's surrounded by all the other "serious cruising boats". I love walking that yard when i go down that way.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Cam - did you put her on the hard? I must have missed that...

Btw, regarding the thread topic, I agree with the others... qualifications have nothing to do with it, but intentions have everything to do with it. I did get varying responses, however, when we were looking for a 40 footer and moving up from a 23 footer. I was surprised at the reactions, but people thought the leap was too big. I don't get it. A bigger boat is easier to sail, slower to respond and only slightly tougher to get into a slip than a smaller boat.
 
#19 ·
thank you all for your input . To elaborate a bit . I did communicate before hand very specific info as to parameters of vessel I was seeking & intended use . I also in writing made even more specific inquiries about the boat that were never responded to . I also explained to broker that in the past month & a half I had made 3 trips to view boats described variously as expertly cared for , lovingly cared for , & impeccably cared for . Each trip was over a thousand miles . Each boat was a basket case . To be honest , looking at boats under 40K so not expecting like new , but was surprised to visit a boat described as expertly cared for with the cabin separated from the deck & the hull needing re-fastening . To this particular broker's credit , he did respond positively to my critique & assured me my associate would be treated in a courteous & civil manner .
 
#20 ·
I guess I should have said a little more. Island Breeze is a 56' cutter, and is on the market for $350,000. She has a 71' from the waterline mast and weighs 26 tons empty. That, patently, is not a boat for a beginner. She's a big, powerful boat with racehorse in her blood. (She won the 1993 Cape Town to Rio race, 1st overall and first in class.)

As to big boats being slower and easier, there is some truth to that, but when you think about an uncontrolled gybe in a boat this size, you're talking about a boom that won't hurt you--it will stone-cold kill you.

To that point I added my comment about sending me someone with no experience. This ain't the boat for a beginner. If a non-sailor is looking for a floating condominium, it ain't the boat. She's beautiful below, but it is a boat that was designed to be sailed. The main salon is not 'wide and open'. It's designed for someone to move through the boat when she's heeled over without getting yourself killed in the process.

As to power, she's running 5/8 T-900 jib sheets, and they sound like high 'E' guitar strings when you're heading upwind in 20 knots of wind. The winches are Lewmar 66 electrics, and when you're going to weather, they drop into low speed frequently. Is this the place for a beginner, or for someone who has 'sailed a Sunfish a couple of times'? No.

If I were selling my own old Morgan T-36, I'd put up with tire-kickers. Because it's conceivable that someone with no experience or dinghy experience might want to make that kind of a leap. But from nothing to a 56' racer/cruiser? Not!

I've been sailing since I was 19 years old, and boating since I was 14--I'm 60 now, and when I took over as her captain about 5 years ago, moving from 36 feet to 56 feet was a huge move. As someone mentioned, everything moves slower. That's all of the time. Which meant the learning curve for getting her docked made for several occasions where I left my fingerprints embedded in the stainless steel wheel. I had captained large boats before, but most of them were power yachts with twin screws. Getting Breeze backed into her slip was a whole different brand of excitement. It was easily a year and dozens of trips in and out before I felt 100% comfortable with coming and going.

Anyway, Breeze isn't a boat that would sell fast anyway. She's in an odd market. She isn't the boat for someone on a shoestring budget. She's not new. I'm sure if she were an Oyster, Swan or Hylas, and only a couple of years old, she'd probably have sold by now, but she's from South Africa. Most people are gun-shy of boats that don't have name recognition like a Hinckley. Breeze will sell to a real sailor who wants reasonable comfort as a bonus, but real sailing performance up front. She'll sell to someone who, like me, would rather go from point 'a' to point 'b' fast, and maybe in a little less comfort than a SeaSlug 56 that weighs 50 tons, has a long keel, and moseys along at 6 knots on a good day--provided you're going downwind. Breeze will point 38 degrees and in 20 knots will charge along at 8.5 knots in 5-6 foot seas.

So that's why I think the brokers should at least have a clue if someone is worth sending to look at the boat. Sending tire kickers and lookie-loos is wasting everyone's time.
 
#38 · (Edited)
So that's why I think the brokers should at least have a clue if someone is worth sending to look at the boat. Sending tire kickers and lookie-loos is wasting everyone's time.
So Gary...When can I come down and kick the tires......:p

I have two power boats for sale...I won't advertise on craigslist anymore as lookie loos wanting them for 10 cents on the dollar is all i get...And I started getting really snippy with people..to the point of aggressively screening them and I didnt care if I blew them away or not...I still have them for sale..One is now with a broker because I couldn't deal with it any more...the other i dont really care if it sells or not ...Its my salmon fishing boat and I like it.
 
#22 ·
I've experenced "pre-qualification" at the Annapolis Boat Show. I can understand that particularly on weekends brokers can be over-whelmed by "looky-lews" who are only at the shows because they needed something to do with their kids. And I'll also admit that I look a bit like a boat bum but brokers should be careful who they ignore or insult. I rulled out purchase of a Hylas 54 primarily because of the attitude of the father and son who produce the boats. I wasn't going to put ~1M in a boat when I didn't like the sellers. If their attitude was as it was for a potential customer, how would they treat me after the sale?
 
#23 ·
To me it is all about professionalism. Yes, part of a broker's job is to rule out the lookie-loo's. No, you don't want to disqualify legitimate buyers just because they don't meet your profile. A good, professional broker can walk that fine line without offending the legitimate buyer. If you are offended by the brokers demeanor or questions then you are right to walk away.
 
#24 ·
This may or may not be real relevant , but a great little story anyway . Has to do with a guy named Don Gohagan . As a young man you'd see old Don around the marina looking like a homeless guy that just crawled out from under a bridge & doing anything around the place . Seeing him scraping a bottom , dipping out bait , fueling boats at the dock , cutting the grass & even repairing the mower were all common place . Imaging how surprised I was to find out " Ole Don " wasn't the lowest paid hourly employee at the marina......In fact he was the owner of the marina......the owner of a chain of restaurants through Louisiana , Mississippi , & Alabama , & the owner of the beautiful 85' schooner Jo Jack that was the envy of everyone in the marina with an IQ over 30 . In the 2 years I knew Mr. Gohagan I never ever once saw him ask anyone to do anything except every once in a while he would ask me to go sailing . Looked like a bum.......was a prince among men .
 
#25 ·
This is a subject that's very dear to my heart.

I recently phoned a UK broker to enquire about an Elan Impression 434 on offer for £146k (US$300k). As it turned out the boat had already sold. But the broker mentioned that they hoped to have another on the market this August. I asked him to ring me as soon as they had it in. His reply: "oh just keep checking our brokerage listing". I was so shocked I just said OK. But as soon as I put the phone down I e-mailed to say I was interested and would really like to be informed as soon as the boat came on the market. I signed the e-mail with my business signature (CEO of my own sucessful business) to signal that I'm serious. Unbelievably I got the same response.

What an *****. If I walked into a Rolls Royce garage looking to spend the same amount I'm pretty sure that I would receive an appropriate level of selling effort. I appreciate that brokers may have to deal with dreamers but - you know - that's part of the job. You shouldn't charge mega dollars for your selling services if you can't be bothered to send e-mails to prospective clients.

So, if you are that UK chap with a 434 Impression for sale and are thinking of using Premier Yachts in Swanwick - do youself a favour and think again. Better still contact me directly!

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant but I just can't stand poor service -especially when it's about selling premium luxury products during a recession!

Graham
 
#26 ·
....... I asked him to ring me as soon as they had it in. His reply: "oh just keep checking our brokerage listing".

....... If I walked into a Rolls Royce garage looking to spend the same amount I'm pretty sure that I would receive an appropriate level of selling effort.

Graham
Exactly. When I buy anything over a few thousand dollars (cars, watches, camera gear, boat) I expect to be treated as though I'm a valuable customer. Sell "it" to me, don't make me do the foot work. If I have to do the foot work, I'd instead use that time to find what I want or need elsewhere.

"Just keep checking our listings" isn't acceptable. You can be alerted by just about any retailer when a product you are interested in becomes available. It's not that hard to do.

I think this type of attitude is common in "luxury item" sales though, particularly boats. There is a "yachtie" mentality that affects every level of boating culture, from the guy with the fastest bass boat (i'm better than you) to the Hinkley salesman(person?) who won't answer your questions because you're wearing old shorts and a t shirt with a hole in it (you aren't worthy).
 
#28 ·
My family buys and sells Arabians. Horse traders long ago learned to treat everyone as a potential goldmine. Too many guys in blown out jeans and run down boots with lots of loose change.

I am reminded of the story about Joe Lewis. The day after he won his first championship, Joe went into the Cadillac dealer in Detroit and was treated like a beat up bum. Joe really wanted the car, and so he persisted, got a quote, and pulled out the cash. He then asked to speak to the owner, and said he would buy the car for the price on the contract, but only if all of the commission was given to the guy running the wash rack.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Its kinda' amazing to me to hear stories about buying a high end new boat that mimic my experience buying an older boat. Even though we bought an older boat it is the third most expensive thing we've ever purchased after our house and our airplane.

In our year long search for our boat, I was amazed and appalled at how hard it was to extract info from many of the brokers we spoke to. As others have alluded to, even a used boat costs as much or more than a high end new car where you'd likely be well treated. I don't understand why so many boat brokers think there is no need to try to earn their commission. A sailboat new or used is a major luxury item purchase and brokers really ought to have the skill to qualify a potential buyer without alienating them and to provide a high level of service once they have.
 
#30 ·
i would agree that asking for sailing experience is pertinent to a sale.
other good questions are; budget,plans for the boat,what other boats is the buyer considering,when does he want the boat if he buys it and has the buyer sold his boat yet if he owns one.
if i were selling these are things i would want the broker to relay back to me before i let anyone on my boat.
i could care less about a tempermental buyer bieng scared off by being asked questions.if they are serious they will realise the salesman is not the owner and is doing his job(doing it well is another story).
if someone is serious about the boat they will buy it because of what it is,not who's representing it.
btw, the seller pays the broker, not the buyer.
last thing i want on my boat is some deadbeat,thief or guy who doenst know what he wants and missed the boatshow.
 
#31 ·
So what's wrong with 'Lookie-Lous'? Weren't you all Lookie-Lous at some point?
We are 3 yrs into a 6 year plan to quit the jobs, sell all and sail away, and we live in the heart of the mid-west....not a lot of boat viewing opportunities here. Because of this our vacation plans each year, by purpose, include contacting boat brokers in the location we will be visiting to arrange to view sailboats in their area in our projected price range. How else are we going to know what type of boats we should be looking for? Do you all buy a car/house by looking at pictures online alone? No, you go view them. And we do the same with sailboats. Yes, we do make the brokers aware of our timeline for purchasing a boat, and we know that this may put us at the bottom of the list to be shown....and that's OK. But we have met a couple of exceptional brokers this way. One in particular, when we were first starting to look, took a lot of time to show us several examples of different boats in our price range and took the time to explain a lot of thing that, as newbies, we didn't even know to look for or ask about. (When the time comes, if we find a boat anywhere in the state of Florida, we will ask him to be our buyer's broker!) On the other hand, I would be very hesitant to ask a private seller to take the time to show his boat knowing full well we would not be buying now. (Us Lookie-Lous are not all heartless!)
So I ask again: what's wrong with Lookie-Lous? We may not buy your boat today ( but if we run across the right boat, we just might!), but because of our 'research' we will buy one of your boats in the not too distant future! Hope you can take the time to show it to us?!
 
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