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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-12-2003 12:00 PM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

Lattitudes and Attitudes bulletin board.
More of a cruiser orientated group with a broad spectrum of members, including the venerable Dr J Drake.
A fun site with the odd pearl of wisdom.
12-10-2003 07:25 PM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

OK I''ll bite... What was the other list where most of the responses were "hold out for the bigger boat"?
12-10-2003 10:04 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

When you are sailing for a long time it sometimes seems as easy to handle a big boat as a small but when you are new to the sport, the greater manueverability and smaller momentum of a small boat is really is easier for the novice. More significantly the smaller boat, especially if fin-keeled, spade ruddered and tiller steered, gives a lot more input so that the novice will develop better boat handling skills more quickly. In my opinion 27 feet is about the upper limit to provide a good learning platform.

12-10-2003 07:56 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

Lots of good advice and ideas so far. Sailing a "small" boat first seems to be a consensus. But I would not consider a 27, even a 25, a "small" boat. Smaller yes, but not small. I can guarantee you would not find it any more difficult to sail my 37-footer. Excepting, of course, the inboard compared to an outboard. So I do not feel that should be part of the formula.

As for lake sailing versus your ultimate sailing grounds. How long before you realize you really want to be out there with the big guys? I think that you can underestimate the work and stress of changing boats that quickly, especially when one has poor sails. And I hope you are not feeling obligated because it is a friend''s boat. This decision is too big for that. Best of luck.
12-10-2003 07:41 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

RobGallagher wrote: "If by some chance you don''t fix or upgrade anything and sell the boat for what you paid for it, write a book. We will buy it!"

That is VERY funny! LOL

12-10-2003 05:33 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

The Catalina 27 you are considering has an outboard so you might also consider a 25 with a pop top and enclosed head (less $$). The 27 and the 25 are both fun boats to sail and good for a weekend. I like the 25 better, small boat feel (on the helm) and with the pop top it seems almost as big down below as my C&C30.

I don''t know where you sail, but, the outboard could give you problems motoring in less than ideal conditions.

Research BUC, Yachtworld, Sailnet etc and go look at some other boats to get a good idea of a price. Beware, you are doing business with a friend and a "fair deal" is when neither the buyer or seller is happy with the price. 8000 seems like the upper range for a 27 w/ an outboard.

Expect to spend money on the boat, that is why we call them holes in the water.

Don''t expect to get back what you paid for it or put into it in a couple of years.

If by some chance you don''t fix or upgrade anything and sell the boat for what you paid for it, write a book. We will buy it!

Get your own survey done.

Thats my .02 cents worth. Best of luck to you,

12-09-2003 06:06 PM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

Due to the long drive to the lake - I would not want to buy anything that I could not comfortably spend a couple of nights aboard with the wife (probably a dog too).
Don''t have the truck etc. to do a trailer boat - but would be getting a great deal on the slip so that would not be too much of a problem.
I guess I like the C27 enough to keep it until I can get the cruiser - just would like to get the cruiser when able for lifestyle reasons - but it wouldn''t kill me if it took a few extra months to sell the C27. The lake sailing idea is a stop-gap as I live inland and its the easiest option for getting on the water until I buy the coastal boat. So learning the sailing grounds is not a factor at all.
12-09-2003 04:11 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

You state that the boat had a recent survey and you trust the surveyor. He should have assigned a value to the boat. At least my surveyor assigned a fair market value.
I might go farther and suggest that you get a catalina 22 or equivalent. You can probably get one in reasonable condition for $5000 or less. With a trailer it would be even easier to sale and take to other lakes etc. We towed a 22'' Helsen behind a light truck and this is simular to a C22. The best thing about a trailerable boat is being able to move it around. We moved ours to 4 lakes over several years and usually took it on a vacation once a year. The larger the boat the more you are stuck in a particular lake. We now have a 32'' boat in the ocean. I do miss the simplicity of parking a trailerable at home to do work. Plus to move the boat a couple hundred miles takes a week instead of a day.
12-09-2003 02:05 AM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

I think that one point that you may be understating is for most, if not all people, learning on a small boat will make them way better sailors and accellerate the learning curve, and one thing that you are over stating is the importance of learning the sailing ground that you will ultimately sail on. I have sailed the Chesapeake for 20 years and I am still learning the sailing ground that I sail on. That is a big part of the fun of sailing.

12-08-2003 07:45 PM
Sooner or Later (a boat)???

Well this is interesting,
I posted this exact question on another website as well - there is a definate difference in the types of reponses.
While this board is mostly of the "get the small boat to learn on for a year - you''ll be better off if you buy carefully (don''t pay too much)" philosophy, the replies on the other board mostly say "hold out for the big boat and save the money to learn then".

This must be a reflection of the people on each board - but I''m still trying to make sense of the difference.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the responses.
So after more research and much thought - here''s where I am in my thinking - comments welcome....

It seems to come down to trying to put a monetary value on a years worth of experience - a form of balancing act - whats it worth???
Heres my initial Pros and Cons list:

I will probably triple my sailing time on the water. (compared to sailing OPB''s)

I will get to learn a lot more about sailing, anchoring, navigation etc. while on a cheaper easier to sail vessel (some say you get to be a much better sailor with respect to boat handling by learning on a smaller vessel).

The logistics of sailing on weekends etc. will be much easier with a place to sleep overnight (80 mile drive each way to the lake).

I will probably loose $2k to $3k on the whole deal if nothing big breaks.

This would translate into a 3 to 5 month delay in purchasing the big boat.

I would be learning on a lake, while the big boat would be on the coast - I won''t be gaining any local knowledge of my ultimate sailing grounds.

I may get stuck for even longer while trying to sell the smaller boat. This may not be a huge deal as I can be flexible, unless I am trying to grab a rare find. Also, the longer I sail the smaller boat, the more money I will accumulate, all be it at a slower rate.

These are the main issues - excluding some important intangibles - sunsets on the water - lifting of the spirit as I get to anchor out at an island for the night after a day of sailing etc.
At the moment I am completely undecided, but I do know that I cannot pay the current asking price for the boat as I will loose come the resale time.
I believe I will wait a while to see if my buddy can get the money he wants for the boat. If he decides it would be better to sell - I may make an offer which would hopefully allow me to resell for close to the same price in a year ($6500).
That way hopefully all I will lose is the slip fee and a years worth of running costs (about $2000).
While it is almost impossible to put a price on experience and other intangibles - I feel that losing any more money in the deal would not be worth it.

Any other comments are most welcome and thank you to everyone for their input.
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