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12-24-2003 05:13 AM
Toyota Sailboats??


I had to razz you a little on the brake milage.It''s just the prankster in me.I agree with you that whether driving or sailing, smooth is COOL!

Merry Christmas to you, and to all!
12-24-2003 03:19 AM
Toyota Sailboats??

John, if your ''cruising'' boat use consists of short coastal/inshore cruising, it seems to me the market abounds in choices for you.

"I have checked the Yamaha listed above. Very few on the market. They do look like quality boats. Any others?"
Personally, I would not recommed a Yamaha. I don''t think they''re well known (not known at all in some sailing venues within the U.S.), I find their styling to be odd and quirky (remember now, this is my ''personal'' view), and I think you''d have a hard time selling it at a later date (an issue that should never be overlooked by any of us when purchasing).

You''d need to offer up the size (boat and crew), sailing grounds and price category in order for anyone''s comments to be truly useful. But speaking generally, it strikes me you are the kind of sailor who best benefits by the big volumne, efficient assembly line, widely marketed and generally capable product lines out there: Catalina, Beneteau, et al. Seems like that would offer you the best ''full package'' value pricing, you should find a size that exactly fits either your needs or (hopefully, and...) your budget, and resale should be more straightforward when that day arrives.

Another factor to consider, falling back on our car analogy, is that boat brokers are essentially car salesmen these days. Rarely do I hear of a buyer, of a new or old boat, who enjoys an ongoing, supportive relationship with his/her broker once the warranty period is past. I have some really dear memories of my wife and I, well after we''d begun cruising our first boat, finding ourselves in the broker''s office on the waterfront, chatting with other customers, kibitzing with the broker but also being coached in helpful ways, and generally finding we''d been adopted into a family when we thought we were just buying a boat. Those days seem long gone to me. Consequently, active owner groups who have a web presence, tech email mailing list and/or periodic written periodical would be an added incentive for me. And I would guess they also can be a bountiful source of used boats that come on the market, without broker''s fees and with known histories of a sort.

12-24-2003 02:29 AM
Toyota Sailboats??

Thanks for the input. I would come under the category of those who sail near their home waters for no more than two weeks at a time. I have no intention of going offshore other than near the coast. Your point of clarification may help someone come up with some specific recommendations. I have checked the Yamaha listed above. Very few on the market. They do look like quality boats. Any others?
12-23-2003 09:16 PM
Toyota Sailboats??

John, I''d encourage you to think a bit more about the meaning of ''cruising'' in your statement: "So I''m looking for the most reliable, affordable, comfortable cruising boat that is made."

As we''ve discussed here before (sometimes at length) ''cruising'' is an overworked term that''s been so watered down for commercial reasons that it tends to mean everything...and therefore nothing. (Look at the recent CW article on ''Pocket Cruisers'' for only one such example). If by cruising you mean extended periods of living aboard, needing the boat to be as functional when anchoring & anchored, or when visiting remote areas as when the boat is daysailed, then there are going to be a host of boat characteristics (e.g. tankage, anchor system), multiple systems (nav, galley, wind/sun protection, etc.) on which you will be dependent, and your boat''s layout and the functionality of your cockpit will both be very important to you. And of course, all of these lie apart from how the base boat was built.

A Toyota may appeal to you and your family as a commuter car but less so if you wanted to go RV''ing in the Sierras or the desert mining area behind Reno for an indefinite period. Personally, I can''t imagine finding boats such as Jeff''s always-favored First series to be a suitable ''Cruising'' boat (note the capital ''C''), despite being well built and high value.

OTOH if your cruising goals with the next boat are more modest - vacationing on it closer to homebase, e.g.- then many of those ''cruiser racer'' designs are probably adaptable enough to serve you well and you''ll find the marketplace full of potential choices.

If your plan is ''Cruising'', try to zero in a bit on your criteria - region you''ll be visiting, length of time away, number/age/health of crew, and other obvious variable - and then look twice (no, three times!) at your carefully projected financial plan. If you''re like most of us (and certainly WHOOSH), you''ll find a lot of winnowing being done for you due to the realities of what you want vs. what you can afford. That''s when the shopping becomes *really* challenging! <g>

12-23-2003 03:31 PM
Toyota Sailboats??

What a conversation!! Everything from Japanese manufacturing techniques to banter about Mercedes Benz. My goal was not to tout the superiority of Toyota. My experience has been that since I have owned Toyotas, I have found myself so satisfied that I don''t even look at buying anything else. Reliability and comfort are very high on my list and in that order. Which leads me back to my question, Jeff considers the Beneteau first series that blend of reliability, good quality and reasonable price that I am looking for. That helps. Are there other reasonably priced boats on the market that satisfy those criteria? Is the thought of a boat that doesn''t require constant repair an oxymoron? I''ve loved the boat that I owned, but I''d rather be sailing than repairing. I''m grateful for having learned to fix just about every system in the event of an emergency. The experience has been invaluable. But I didn''t take up boat maintenance, I took up sailing. So I''m looking for the most reliable, affordable, comfortable cruising boat that is made. Perhaps this is a business opportunity in the making for those of you who know enough about boat design to make a difference. Thanks for all the comments. It has been very educational. Any more wisdom will be welcomed.
12-23-2003 01:48 PM
Toyota Sailboats??

John, I am right guessing you''re the same gentleman I exchanged emails with recently, regarding a boat for sale in Virginia? Was it "not reliable??"
Al Ross
12-23-2003 07:37 AM
Toyota Sailboats??

...but, back to the question.

check out Yamaha sailboats, exp. the early 80''s ones. They have looks and speed. They seem to hold their value like few others. My favorite was their Yamaha 33 until I stepped on to a Yamaha 37. My my. That boat may just be your Toyota sailboat.
12-23-2003 06:41 AM
Toyota Sailboats??

Actually, Stede, I''m really no slow poke. I commute 48 miles each way and spend 30 of that on an Interstate. Driving before the main rushhour going and coming, I can average 80 mph on the highway, while getting 37 mpg. You know what works?: maintaining as reasonable following distance as the local nutcases permit, and anticipation.

I coast up to red traffic lights as long as it''s not impeding someone. I don''t make jack rabbit starts. If I need to be somewhere in 2% less time, I leave earlier.

Like Jackie Stewart used to say (paraphrased), you can be very fast, yet very smooth at the same time.

Getting this topic back onto boats, isn''t it the same thing? Smooth engagement of the transmission and throttle. Letting the wind and current do most of the work when docking. Anticipation of everything around you. Treat the equipment with care and follow preventive maintenance schedules.

Smooth is COOL in my book.

Fair winds all!
12-23-2003 06:28 AM
Toyota Sailboats??


Thanks for that post, it''s a good example of why I enjoy this message board. Thanks for asking the question John Manzano.

12-23-2003 06:25 AM
Toyota Sailboats??

Wow! 160K miles on the original brakes! Perhaps the accelerator should be used more since Toyotas are also good on gas 8^)
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