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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?
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Thread: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-24-2012 10:25 AM
chucklesR
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

I paid asking for my Irwin - I could have talked him down - but I wanted that boat, then.

I guess that makes it a buyers market.

On the other hand I looked at a Morgan 43 that has been for sale for 6 years - it was a disaster of wet and mildew on the inside - yet was listed for a price that didn't include that. If it's a buyers market obviously the owner of the boat is unaware of it.
During my short search I saw many boats where the broker point blank told me what he thought the owner would settle for - in a lot of cases that was between 60 - 80% of asking. In some cases it was 100% or don't bother, irregardless of how long the boat had been listed.
09-24-2012 10:17 AM
MarioG
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

"Getting what you pay for" is not always the rule. We paid a fair price for our Endeavour 32 because it was in great shape, and even after living aboard for 2 years have only needed to spend 10% on upgrades & maintenance. Working at a boat yard in Annapolis I saw boats that seemed in the same shape selling for twice the price or if they were around the price we paid needed lots of work. The last boat I worked on was an older Morgan 38 that sold for $25k and before the boat was sea worthy the owner spent atleast another $15k + . An Endeavour 33 that was for sale there was listed for twice what we paid and still didn't seem to be in as good shape. I think you might find much better deals from private sellers then a broker if your looking for a buyers market.
09-24-2012 05:17 AM
TomandKarens34
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

You are both right. My current boat cost me $8K. I have $10K in repairs since I bought it.
Still not it the water, but next year it will be. I would not do it again. I might not get a larger boat. It depends on the market and the boat. $50K is my target price. I'm dreaming if I think I'll find what I'm looking for in that range. Never the less, I keep my eyes open.
09-23-2012 09:57 PM
SeaQuinn
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Ultimately it still boils down to "you get what you pay for". The well cared for and maintained boats still cost more than the same model boat that has been neglected and needs big upgrades. Often paying more for the well maintained boat with newer electronics and features you need for cruising ends up costing less in the long run than buying the cheaper neglected boat that will need repairs and upgrades.

I think the economy is causing more boats to fall into the disrepair category because people don't have the money to do all the things that really need to be done regularly to keep the boat in great shape. That is probably why prices have dropped on these boats and they appear to be "bargains".
09-23-2012 07:14 PM
TakeFive
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandKarens34 View Post
After reading my posts, I have to confront the fact that I am working from a bottom feeder's point of view. The prices of new, or even newish boats are SO far over my price target, that my perspective has been skewed. I would like to frame my posts as pricing on boats over 10 years old and 38 to 43 feet long.
I'm not sure I understand - you were looking at an Irwin for $75-100k, which is hardly "bottom feeder" material. What is your price range for a 38-43 foot boat? And if you are on a tight budget, traveling to Florida to seek out bargains could be a costly mistake if those boats are not up to an ocean passage. Would you trust a "bottom feeder" boat with your life? (Or were you planning to ship it, which could cost more than a "bottom feeder boat.")

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandKarens34 View Post
...That said, the tide lifts and drops all the boats, so with a grain of salt, my comments might still be useful.
What you say is literally true as it relates to tidal waters. However, if you are attempting a metaphor for market conditions, I would beg to differ. A lot of the "bottom feeder" boats can now be had for free - a 100% drop in price. But well cared for boats have dropped, but by much less. There is no single percentage number that can describe the price change of vastly different boats in this economy.

If you are truly a "bottom feeder," you need to be very careful to budget adequate money for repairs and maintenance. Purchase price is just the admission fee to play the game. Often (usually) the bigger, cheaper boat will cost much more in repairs and maintenance. Once again, maintenance costs cannot be calculated as a percentage of purchase price, because a more expensive boat that's in better condition will likely cost less to repair and maintain than a similar cheaper boat, at least for the first 5 years of ownership.
09-23-2012 06:10 PM
TomandKarens34
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

After reading my posts, I have to confront the fact that I am working from a bottom feeder's point of view. The prices of new, or even newish boats are SO far over my price target, that my perspective has been skewed. I would like to frame my posts as pricing on boats over 10 years old and 38 to 43 feet long. There are lots of folks who are in a far different market position than myself and for them, my posts are not very germane to the discussion. Also I am in New England, and what I say is more relevant to the North East market. There are different market drivers in the North West, Canada, and other locations.
That said, the tide lifts and drops all the boats, so with a grain of salt, my comments might still be useful.
09-23-2012 01:38 PM
SloopJonB
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Maybe. Often salespeople will try to make the asking price sound like a bargain by inflating the "new" price. Macy's is notorious for this, and the same hold true for other markets like boats.

I don't know the boat, so this is just a general comment. But just as a general sanity check, how many 37' boats out there were selling for $275k, even at the peak of the bubble?
In pure numbers, not many but most of the quality, low volume or semi-custom ones seemed to cost those sort of $.
09-23-2012 01:33 PM
TakeFive
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppp View Post
Norwalk Boat Show yesterday. Wedged between new Bene's and Hunters was this lovely 1.5 year old 37' Hanse. She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Huge drop. No?
Maybe. Often salespeople will try to make the asking price sound like a bargain by inflating the "new" price. Macy's is notorious for this, and the same hold true for other markets like boats.

I don't know the boat, so this is just a general comment. But just as a general sanity check, how many 37' boats out there were selling for $275k, even at the peak of the bubble?
09-23-2012 01:28 PM
SloopJonB
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppp View Post
She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Is there such a thing as a Freudian typo?
09-23-2012 12:56 PM
jppp
Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Norwalk Boat Show yesterday. Wedged between new Bene's and Hunters was this lovely 1.5 year old 37' Hanse. She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Huge drop. No?
To tell the truth the only boat that caught my eye was a '84 Nelson Marek Morgan 36-6 with fixed keel and brand new Westerbeke. It was not part of the show.
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