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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-05-2004 09:27 PM
DelmarRey
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Gene, Good point on the back stay! I guess I should just get a QUALITY new mainsail when the time comes. I keep trying to improve this old IOR racer, but it seems I should just leave well enough alone when it comes to the rigging. I will be adding a genoa furling though. Thanks ...........Del
02-05-2004 06:28 PM
genethompson
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Del, a longer boom would help you downwind but will hurt you upwind in anything over light winds. You will have to reef earlier due to the weather helm, and in so doing you loose sail area up high, which helps the boat point higher. Also, 2 feet of clearance to the backstay does not sound like alot to me. Be sure to measure with the boom raised until it is perpendicular to the backstay, one would hate an acidental jibe cause the boom to hit the back stay.

Gene
02-05-2004 05:15 PM
DelmarRey
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Gene, Thanks for the reply.
This is one reason for my Questions. My main is streached out and I planing for a replacement within a couple years. I''m not sure I would have the dipping problem. At present my boom is 14'' (luff= 46'')and I still have another 2'' to the back stay. I''ve been heeled over 35 degrees (normal is 15- 20 degrees) and my boom was a long way from the water in white caps and on the wind. Maybe if I were before the wind broaching deep swells, but that seems unusuall? My gooseneck is 8'' off the water and the vessel has a 12'' beam. A longer boom would serve two purposes, one of them would get the traveler out of my cockpit, the other, I would hope for better light air performance.

Del
02-05-2004 11:47 AM
hr53
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Hi,

You state that you are looking for sailing vessel, 35 feet, primarily for single-handling in offshore waters.

We live in a world were everybody out there has their own opinion. My dear friend JeffH being one of them. Jeff has always pressed the advantages of a fractional rigs. Fractional rigs work on the big Farr designed Volvo Challenge boats, that have a crew of eleven. Fractional rigs are also wonderful on the race course going around the buoys. This is the type of sailing that he does.

Now to my point. Seventy five percent of the cruising vessels out there are being single-handed, I mean actual world voyaging boats out there doing it, are CUTTERS. For a good reason. They work. Offshore, one will work under jib, staysail and main. This is a proven combination that works. In building winds and seas; one will reef the main; then after that partially furl the jib,; then as the wind builds, one throws in another second reef and furls the jib; then the sailor will have just the staysail up and double reef in the main; his vessel will be balanced, the center of effort is low and center; the autopilot works effortlessly, the crew is relaxed.

Take a survey of the boats doing the cruising, and see for yourself that itís much different than the opinions of the sailors that sail the race courses.

I have always sailed successfully a cutter; if it was a Perry designed Norsemann 447, or a Pacific Secraft Crealock 34, or a Valiant 40, or a BCC28, or now a HR53. Iíve owned sailed 200K on these cutters. The design works.

Bernie
Solstice, HR53
RogueWave Yacht Sales
02-05-2004 11:40 AM
hr53
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Hi,

Hi,

You state that you are looking for sailing vessel, 35 feet, primarily for single-handling in offshore waters.

We live in a world were everybody out there has their own opinion. My dear friend JeffH being one of them. Jeff has always pressed the advantages of a fractional rigs. Fractional rigs work on the big Farr designed Volvo Challenge boats, that have a crew of eleven. Fractional rigs are also wonderful on the race course going around the buoys. This is the type of sailing that he does.

Now to my point. Seventy five percent of the cruising vessels out there are being single-handed, I mean actual world voyaging boats out there doing it, are CUTTERS. For a good reason. They work. Offshore, one will work under jib, staysail and main. This is a proven combination that works. In building winds and seas; one will reef the main; then after that partially furl the jib,; then as the wind builds, one throws in another second reef and furls the jib; then the sailor will have just the staysail up and double reef in the main; if the winds builds further, drop the main and staysail will carry the vessel to 50 knots; his vessel will be balanced, the center of effort is low and center; the autopilot works effortlessly, the crew is relaxed.

Take a survey of the boats doing the cruising, and see for yourself that itís much different than the opinions of the sailors that sail the race courses.

I have always sailed successfully a cutter; if it was a Perry designed Norsemann 447, or a Pacific Secraft Crealock 34, or a Valiant 40, or a BCC28, or now a HR53. Iíve owned sailed 200K on these cutters. The design works.

Bernie
Solstice, HR53
RogueWave Yacht Sales
02-05-2004 11:01 AM
genethompson
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Oh, I forgot another problem with a long boom is the possibility of dipping it in the water when running. This can cause significant damage to boom and rig.

I know someone that converted to a furling boom that was about 3 feet longer than their existing one. They also raised it about a 1.5 feet. Looked odd to me but I think they were concerned about the dipping problem.

Gene
02-05-2004 10:07 AM
genethompson
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Del
Jeff will be able to give a better answer, but a longer boom will help in light winds where the extra weather helm won''t be that much of a problem. Better would be a main with full upper battens and a full roach. You didn''t mention what your main is like. A good (new) main sail will make a big difference.

Gene
02-05-2004 09:49 AM
DelmarRey
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Thanks Jeff for the reply! It appears there is more work than reasonable to convert. It would be better to just buy a vessel already set up for Frac''l rig. I have a tall rig (57'' mast) but its obviously the wrong style. I have double spreaders, with the shrouds directly p/s. I have cosidered a longer boom for more main sail but don''t know how that would affect the helm.

Del
02-05-2004 01:57 AM
Jeff_H
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Generally the mast on a fractionally rigged boat is further forward than it is on a masthead rig. The keel on a fractionally rigged boat is also generally a little bit forward of the position that it would be on a masthead rig. (This is part of the reason that Fractionally rigged boats will often track a little better than a mathead rig for an equal keel area on the other hand this is also the reason that Frac''s tend to kite more on the anchor.) The mast on a fractionally rigged boat is usually taller than the mast on a masthead rigged boat and these days are typically a tapered spar. Other differences is that a fractionally rigged boats used for cruising generally have swept back spreaders (10-15 degrees),usually do not have any forward lowers and usually have a single shroud chainplate positioned aft of the mast.Depending on the design of the boat, in most cases it is a pretty big job to convert a masthead rigged boat to a fractional rig.

Jeff
02-04-2004 06:50 PM
DelmarRey
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Might I ask where the position of the mast on a fractional rig is in relation to the LWL or OAL, which ever applies? And compared to the position of a masthead rig?
From pictures I''ve seen it appears to be in the 30-40% foreward section. And if so, how is the mast stepped over the keel, which appears to be on the centerline abeam (the keel that is)?
Also, are there any mast height differences between the fractional and the masthead rigs and is it much trouble converting a masthead to a fractional rig? Which I''ve been contemplating, obviously.
Thanks, ......Del
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