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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-04-2004 07:26 PM
onojmai
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

i am young, 21 years old, naive. and probably don''t have the experience others do around here. i have been to both the hinckley and morris yards, and have seen what they do. they both offer beautiful, great boats,(nothing catches my eye quite like a good ole hinckley 35 pilot) though they are a bit overpriced (to say the least).

its hard to say whats good for you in that range. but i wouldn''t look past a pacific seacraft 34 if you can afford it. though slow, its seaworthy and beautiful (unless you can''t stand a canoe stern). also, checkout sabre''s 34 mk2. a good looking semi-modern boat that won''t do you wrong.

if those are out of your price range, checkout a pearson 34-2, P-33, or a P-303 for value from the late 1980''s. for coastal cruising you can''t go wrong with those models- a great deal ( i grew up on a P-28 and have fallen in love with em). just my two cents.
04-14-2004 12:37 PM
Jeff_H
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

I am not sure that one can really make a boat which takes full advantage of modern design principles,but which also looks traditional above the waterline and still has the currently expected levels of comfort, for all sorts of reasons. One of the big things that I did not mention is that a 32 foot traditional watercraft would have had narrow decks located deep into the bilge and still would not have as much headroom as we expect out of boats today. When you consider the shallow canoe bodies of a modern design and the need to some how cram a lot of headroom into small boats, you suddenly end up with boats that have enormous freeboard and comparatively little sheer.

That said a number of builders have tried to create more classic looking boats. The Hanse has a slightly more traditional feel to it. The J-32 is another boat that done in a traditional dark colors appears somewhat more traditional than many.

Otherwise I am not sure what to tell you. To some extent I have wrestled with these issues myself over the years. Depending on where I lived and what my lifestyle was, I have owned traditional boats (1939 Stadel Cutter, and a 1949 Folkboat for example) and I have owned more modern boats. When it comes to sailing abilities, the modern boats win in all conditions, but the traditional boats are very interesting to sail when the winds are moderate and you have no where in particular to go.

Jeff

04-14-2004 09:37 AM
Fishboat
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Jeff,
The elliptic top & triangular bottom is interesting & I can see what you mean. As I look into & at various boats I seldom fail to let out a short sigh at the top-side appearance of the reasonably modern (read: reasonably well sailing) boats available. While I don''t necessary need external brightwork everywhere it seems like there are the traditional boats that I really like the appearance of and the more modern boats that sail better but (to my eye) basically all look the same.

Despite the elliptic vs triangle mis-match I wonder if a designer could(or why they haven''t) come up with good match between traditional top-sides(appearance) & modern hull without it looking like some sort of mutation. Naturally, at this point it would be a (semi-)custom boat & beyond my means, but you''d think there would be some demand for a craft like this. Look at the auto industry...having approached exhaustion with how many ways can a car look like an elongated bubble they now "advance" ("forward...into the past") into a retro-look in the attempt to garner some sales.

I''ll look into the other boats mentioned, but so far it looks like I favor a better sailor over vanilla topsides (sigh).
04-14-2004 08:24 AM
msl
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Morris??
Hinckly??

Well, that leaves the old Alberg 30 question in the back of a dusty corner. (smiling)
04-14-2004 07:15 AM
pma_foyl
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

... HINCKLEY

(right after I rob that bank, win that LOTTO, or sail off in the neighbors''s...)
04-14-2004 04:59 AM
Sailmc
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Sure, if you have $500K to $750K
04-14-2004 04:48 AM
maestro
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Anybody look at the new Morris Yachts yet?? From the ads, they look traditional but have a quick hull???
04-13-2004 06:06 PM
Jeff_H
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

I would not say that traditional looks and reasonable performance are mutually exclusive but in many ways there are conflicts between the hullforms found on traditional boat above the waterline and the hullforms that are understood to offer superior performance below the waterline.

When you look at the waterline shape of a traditional working watercraft, the entry was pretty full, the beam comparatively narrow and the stern fairly fine. That is a shape that makes sense when you need to carry a lot of weight, when you have minimal stability, when you have an inefficient sail plan, and underbody and when speed is less important that cargo capacity.

With the ability to produce efficient sail plans, enormous stability relative to drag, and lighter construction, the hull form of choice has a comparatively fine entry, has its center of buoyancy quite far aft, and a compartively flat run that terminates in a comparative wide transom. To prevent the kinds of bow down trim changes that were typical of early higher performance boats the topsides on modern boats are very carefully modeled to minimize heeled trim changes.

Placing a traditional topsides on modern underbody is essentially placing an eliptic top on triangulr bottom. They do not align and it results in a mix that is bound to be trouble when heeled.

It is not that there have not been some reasonably successful blends of traditional and modern. The Alerion Express, Ericson Independence 31 (31c), and to a lesser extent the J-32 fall to mind, but it is hard to successfully blend the most current thinking with the gentler ideas of the past.

Respectfully
Jeff
04-13-2004 05:40 PM
DirtManly
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Hello Fishboat,
I just went through this same adventure. I actually tried to buy a Cape Dory, but the deal fell apart because of the survey. I ended up buying a Morgan 34. This boat seems like it will do about every thing that your looking for, with reasonable sailing performance. Alerion''s are quite nice, but I found them cost prohibitive.
There were several other boats that I looked at pretty close that might work for you as well.
Seafarer 34 ( McCurdy & Rhodes )
Seafarer 31 ( Bill Tripp )
Morgan 30 Traditional ( Charlie Morgan )
Islander 34
I would more than likely have bought the Seafarer 34, if it had been local. The biggest problem is that all these boats are getting pretty old at this point and you will have to be very carefull about your choice. I found that my choice of surveyor was even more important than my choice of boats.
Very best of luck to you
Dirt
04-13-2004 04:12 PM
jkumin
Best combo of traditional lines & sailing ablility

Look at an Alerion-Express, designed by Carl Schumacher. Has the underbody of an Express 27 with above water lines that echo a Herreshoff.
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