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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard > Babas? +/-''s
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-27-2007 03:37 PM
sailingdog Gburton-

You'd probably be much better off starting a new thread about this, rather than reviving an old thread with an off-topic post. Your post is far less likely to get good responses since it is buried under an urelated heading. Also, it is somewhat poor net etiquette to revive dead threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBurton View Post
Anybody sailed on a Windjammer 34? There do not seem to be many of them around.
08-27-2007 03:19 PM
GBurton Anybody sailed on a Windjammer 34? There do not seem to be many of them around.
12-23-2004 12:06 PM
alvanskl
Babas? +/-''''s

I have a 1981 Tyana 37 Ketch for sale at $55,000. Needs some maintenance such as new engine hoses, freeing up steering cables, etc. as it has been sitting for 13 years in dry dorage. Proven sailor from Maine to Venezuela. Lived aboard ten years. Aries windvane self steering. AL
10-15-2004 05:41 PM
donkopyc
Babas? +/-''''s

Mike, I have a Tayana 37 pilothouse for sale.
Very sound but needs TLC 57K OBO.
Don
08-27-2004 03:21 PM
Billpjr
Babas? +/-''''s

I gotta comment on this statement:

"In US navy studies of motion comfort, about half of the people in the studies preferred a slower roll through a wider angle, and the other half preferred a perhaps snappier motion through a narrower angle".

I''d like to see the boats those US Navy studies were taken on. I seriously doubt they were on small sailing craft anywhere near 32''or at sailboat speeds. If done on ships it makes sense...big slow rolls take 5-10 seconds on a ship and are less agreeable to the crew than quick short rolls.
08-26-2004 11:57 AM
dbraun
Babas? +/-''''s

You asked for some recommended vessels. Here is my personal list. Many of these are doubled ended full keeled cruisers such as you are seeking. Almost all can be had any day of the week for less than $70k. (BTW Babas are the most overpriced 30 footer I have seen, that said, one sold in my marina for $8k in the last 6 months).

1. Windjammer 34 (wooden decks)
2. Dreadnaught 32
3. Rafiki 35, 37
4. Roughwater 33
5. Fantasia 35
6. Westsail 32
7. Baba 30
8. Tayana 37
9. Ingrid 38
10. Freya 39
11. Ohlson 38?
12. Southern Cross 31, 35, 39
13. Aries 32
14. Westsail 42
15. Spencer 35 Mk II
16. Cabo Rico 38
17. Oceanic 36
18. Young Sun 35/Windward 35
19. Hans Christian 34, 36, 38
20. Mariner Polaris 36
21. EO 36
22. Mao Ta 36
23. Union 36
24. some CT''s (Ta Chiao)
25. Nan Tai 37
26. Explorer 45 aft cockpit
27. Shannon 37, 38 (normally rigged as ketches and may have centerboards
28. Alajuela 39 ( very narrow sterns)
29. Cape George 36 (wooden decks)
30. Fraser 36
31. Jason 35
32. Rival 38
33. Tashiba 31, 36
34. Kogen 38 (centerboards)
35. Bayfield 36
36. Ta Shing panda 38
37. True North 34
38. Lord Nelson
39. Bentley 38
40. Globe/Falcon 38
41. CT 34
42. Pacific Seacraft Maria 32

It seems that the going price on late 70''s Tayana 37''s is about $45k which in my mind makes them about the best deal out there. You might also consider the Rafiki 37. It is laid out much like the Tayana, but can be had for about $10k less. With all these boats be very carefull of the teak decks. Almost all of them leak or will leak. You MUST get a competant surveyor to check the vessel out. If you have some good skills, you can usually talk about $10k off the price of a boat with saturated deck cores and then just dry them out yourself. ( you may want to avoid vessels with rotten cores though).

My own experience is that I bought a Rafiki 35 (saturated decks) for $7,500 last July. I bought a semi tractor and trailer and hauled her to a hot dry place. Deck cores should be dry in another month or so. I''ll then glass the decks and finish the rest of the refit (new plumbing and electrical, some minor cosmetic stuff)


David Braun
s/v Nausicaa
08-06-2004 03:48 PM
mmccoy
Babas? +/-''''s

And when I said ''My Westsail is like Mikes'' I was only referring to the basic layout. I should have said ''My Westsail is like Mikes but his is much prettier''

The Sannyasin is a salty, drop dead gorgeous WS32.
08-06-2004 11:18 AM
mdougan
Babas? +/-''''s

Sailingfool,

Curious about why that might be the case, I dug up the specs on the C&C 32s and plugged them into my trusty boat calc spreadsheet that dumps out all sorts of useful metrics.

First thing I notice is that the displacement for the C&C 32 is roughly half that of the Westsail''s 19,500lbs. So, the sail area/displacement ratio comes out quite a bit higher for the C&C than the Westsail (16 versus 14, where 24 is a major racing boat, and 12 is an under-rigged heavy cruiser). No doubt, this is part of what goes into the handicapping calculations.

So, you''re right, I should have said "after 5 minutes, the Westsail should be able to keep pace with any other modern designs of similar lenght and displacement".

But, it was interesting to note that the max hull speed of the C&C 32''s 24.66 foot waterline is only 6.65 kts compared to the 7.28 kts for the Westsail''s 29.5 LWL.. so in the right conditions, the Westsail *should* be able to put one over on the C&C.

Other interesting stats, the C&Cs capsize screening formula result is 1.93 (anything under 2 is pretty stable) compared to the Westsail''s 1.64 (guess who''s going to be harder to knock down?)

According to Ted Brewer''s Motion Comfort Ratio, the C&C is 25.06 compared to the Westsail''s 40.1 higher values denote a more comfortable ride with most mid-level cruisers averaging in the mid thirties.

So, again, if racing in light wind is your thing, then you probably won''t be too happy with a Westsail, but, in all other areas, it looks like you''ll have a nicer ride <grin>

Mike
08-06-2004 06:24 AM
mmccoy
Babas? +/-''''s

As both Jeff_H & Mike (owner of the WS32 Sannyasin) know I just purchased a WS32 so view my response as someone with a bias toward these fine boats.

But maybe my ''decision tree'' of why I decided on a Westsail vs a different boat might help.

1. resale value - Westsails are holding their value extremely well (some say they''re even appreciating 3-5% per year). In the mid 70''s Westsails sold for roughly $50-60K. Today, 25-30 years later they''re selling for roughly (avg) $50-60K. You do the math.

2. ''Ergonomics'' - Even tho interior layouts were essentially the same I found other boats ''cramped'' feeling, lacking ''elbowroom'' & ample storage, with absolutely terrible engine access. One Westsail owner used the expression "lost on board" for things he couldn''t find, but knew he had. Obviously the roominess of the WS comes from its heavy displacement, full keeled hull. For me, as a liveaboard, comfort (roominess/storage/access, etc.) was more important than acceleration (as Mike says, it''s not hard to attain hull speed, it just takes longer than a more modern design). My Westsail is like Mikes (berth/settees to port & starboard) and I agree the centerline drop leaf dinette can get in the way at times moveing fore/aft in the cabin. However, I (personally) preferred this arrangement over the sbd setee/port dinette version as it seemed useable storage/space was less efficient and/or would be uncomfortable trying to sit athwartships when underway & heeled. YMMV

3. Seaworthiness - As a rusty singlehanded sailor I wanted a solid, forgiving boat that is safe & easy to sail. I prefer the high bulwarks to those dinky toerails (gives a safe feeling on deck), outboard chainplates (no ducking under stays when moving forward), Simple tiller steering, low cabintop profile, 1" thick hand layed solid fiberglass at keel (1/2" at deck/hull joint), etc..

4. Asthetics - As knowledgeable as Jeff is we pretty much disagree on everything except for one point: ''Beauty is in the eye of the beholder''. I prefer more classic lines and think the modern boats look like the inside of a refrigerator. As another Westsailor recently said "Life is too short to sail an ugly boat". One drawback to owning a Westsail is all the people that interrupt you at the dock to tell you what a great looking boat it is.

Finally, a slight correction to Jeff''s comments about the Ballast (according to Bud Tapin, ex-GM of Westsail and owner of Worldcrusier Yacht Company, whos sole purpose is to provide a single source for info, parts, etc. for Westsails).

"Concrete was never used to my knowledge in any of the Westsail 32''s, unless some home builder decided to use it, against the construction manual directions. Most of the kit boats went out with the ballast already installed, as the home builders did not have the equipment to handle the weight."

Otherwise, Westsails were ballasted with encapsulated lead/steel punchings or (as an option) lead/lead shot. Later (around ''75'') another option of a 3-piece block lead ballast was offered.
08-05-2004 06:31 PM
Sasha_V
Babas? +/-''''s

A friend of mine in the US runs a Viking reanactment society that has a couple of reproduction Viking ships.

They are selling one of them in preperation for taking delivery of a new and bigger (and better researched) boat and we have been talking alot about the old Fradreca. She is of oak and pine and lapstrake contruction in the viking manner. 32feet LOA with 29feet waterline and 9 feet of beem. Has twelve oars and a crew of 16-18 with a slightly too small viking square sail.

A couple of years ago Attli was quite surprised to find that this viking boat was also considerably faster then a Westsail32 under full sail. They caught it, passed by it and arrived at the dock in time to lower sail, tie up and, and have half the unloading done before the Westail32 entered the channel.

This is all I know about them (having only seen the pictures he took), but it is an amusing story.


Sasha
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