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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > 30' for $15-20k -- dangers?
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Thread: 30' for $15-20k -- dangers? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-08-2009 12:40 PM
Pearsonistic I recently bought an 1978 pearson 30. Paid $8500 and put another $8K into it to replace the atomic four with another atomic four. New running rigging and roller furler, good sails, average cosmetics on the outside, gps depth/knot meter, stereo, very well maintained and lots of extras. I agree with everything southernsmoke said. I bought a cheap, well appointed, old boat which was already maximally depreciated. I single hand this boat almost all the time so I would make sure everything on your boat comes back to the cockpit for single handing. I would have rented if there were more options in this area. If I decide that i'm not really into sailing I can sell this boat and lose very little. Keep in mind that almost all the boats in the marina never leave the marina (you don't want too much money rotting in the water). Also, my wife saw the boat, asked when we could sail to mexico, motored around on it once and will never leave the marina on the boat again!!
I wouldn't buy a boat again with a bad engine, too much hassel. Take your time, look, compare, read, dream about it, and make sure it has everything you want (don't plan on adding anything after you buy it, too expensive.) Some think dreaming is half of sailing anyhow!
01-28-2009 05:08 PM
southernsmoke I read this whole thread... And having bought a boat with similar goals less than six months ago, I want to throw my 2 cents in here.

The OP seems to be on the fence about what exactly he wants.. but assuming you're after something 25-30' you can get a decent boat for MUCH less than 20k.

Maybe I'm not in tune with the rest of the country, but the economy right now has put a new meaning of "buyer's market"

My only worry is that I might find 25' too small. Plenty enough room for our family of three, but the pop-top seems like it wouldn't be great for added guests, as I figure nobody should sit on top of it. I also worry about it handling rougher seas like some ~3ft ones I saw this summer coming home across the Sound in the evening. I figure I could maybe get it for $10k (13.5k asking price) by leveraging some comps. I'd have that "pride of ownership" and ability to sail at will. I think I might always be "what-if"ing myself regarding a larger boat, though, and it'd be nice to have more main-cabin berthing without building a custom insert."

Anyone selling anything right now in your price range falls into three categories:

A. boat has been on the market for far too long, obviously overpriced
B. Boat just got on the market from a non-distressed seller, who probably wont be able to get what he wants for it because of market conditions
C. boat is on the market from a distressed seller who needs to move this item.

You have a kid on the way, what you want is flexible (many types and makes will suit you) and you are trying to save money. I'd find some people in the "C" category, and offer, at absolute maximum, 60% of the asking price, unless the boat is listed at an already very low price.

I got a 1983 27' tanzer for significantly less than 10k. Price had dropped twice and I told the broker straight up that I had cash in hand, and if the owner wanted to sell that I needed an answer quickly or I'd just move on. They didnt even counter my offer. It needed a few routine things, but other than bottom paint, she was ready to sail that day. Six months later I've had no major problems, and I still have less than 10k into her, counting survey, all repairs, and painting I've done. My only regret, having seen the economy deteriorate even more since the summer, was offering what I did.

Shop around. Do tons of research. Get a surveyor. Do NOT pay too much money. Its a buyers market, and its only going to get worse for the sellers in the near future. Now is a great time to be buying a boat, if you can reasonably rely on your future income and job situation.
01-28-2009 03:15 PM
CaptKermie
Just buy the boat! the sooner the better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony11 View Post
I sailed a Santana 20 on Lake Washington once in choppy water, and took quite a beating. Last weekend my (admittedly pregnant) wife and I rented a J24 out of Orcas and sailed/motored around between there and Jones/Waldron. At one point a jackass in a powerboat (yes, really! ) blew past us and his wake jostled us a bit, enough that the Merc 5's prop came out of the water once and my wife kinda freaked at the motion. Back in June we passengered on a daysail on a C&C 36, and powering back at night we had (guesstimate) 3' swells that she wasn't doing too well with, so the comfort factor is important to me - especially when the baby starts coming along. I can join a club and maybe end up on 25' boats a lot of the time, but am concerned about how the comfort angle for the two of them, especially overnighting.
OK I've purused the thread quickly and see you've had plenty of advice so I won't repeat too much. But I will tell you a bit of my experience. Jackass powerboats...they are a fact of life, get use to them. Three foot swells, can and do happen in the Georgia Strait regularly. The longer you own a boat the greater your chances of venturing further are. You will get bored with the same water all the time and the sense of adventure will lure you out of Puget sound eventually. With experience comes confidence and it is only a matter of time before your confidence takes you out to the San Juans, then on up to the Canadian Gulf Islands and then on up to Desolation Sound, it is inevitable, accept it.
I sail the San Juans and Gulf Islands out of Point Roberts every summer and it is awsome scenic. My wife and I cruise in a 26' Macgregor and find it quite comfortable once we got used to the motion. The Mac is a corky boat but takes a lot of jostling in it's stride, we have even got caught in rip tides where we were tossed like a pair of jeans in an agitator wash tub. Rough seas happen, it goes with the sport, get over it and get use to it.
Cruising in a small boat is like camping, but you can stop at marinas for showers and supplies or just exploring. There is much to see outside the Puget Sound and it will always bekon you, resistance is futile, plan for it in your future. There are many small boats out there, it is a mecca, and always busy with other power boats ferries or commercial ships all of which create wakes, there are currents and rip tides too, but you will learn to deal with them, your wife too. Just get the boat and get out there, you'll see, it will be the best decision you ever made and you will never look back.
01-28-2009 12:16 PM
AlanBrown I agree with the other posters that you can find a good 30 ft. boat for under $20K. Heck I'll sell you my 1981 Hunter 30 for way less than that. I also strongly urge you to have any boat you're interested in professionally surveyed. Good luck with your search.

Now let me change gears for a minute.

After reading your posts I wonder if sailing is something your wife will really take to, even after the baby is born. If a powerboat wake freaks her out, or 3foot choppy waves make her uncomfortable, maybe boating isn't her thing. Heck, boats rock and roll all the time. If you're building your boat-buying decision around making this a family activity, you may be in for a big and costly disappointment.

IMHO nothing is going to contribute faster to marital discord than you spending $20K on a boat she's not comfortable aboard, then using it to spend weekends cruising around the bay by yourself or with friends, while she's left at home watching the baby. This is a recipe for disaster and I've got the scars to prove it.

Anyway, it sounds as if you have more to decide than what boat to buy.

P.S. My scars came from the time I bought a Honda Goldwing. Mama never did ride with me.
01-28-2009 11:25 AM
livesonjura I agree with JimsCal, I'm on a 1979 Lancer 30, practically everything onboard, except me and the electronics, is 30 years old and I've had her for 6 years and paid <15k. The diesel is still chuggin' along and sails still sailin'. The hull is in great shape, no blisters. I previously had a Westsail 32 whose cost was 4x. I'll take my cheap Lancer any day. Comfort-wise, a 30' 8,000 lb. displacement sailboat is gonna respond like a cork in 3' seas or in the wake of a splendid fast moving power boat.
09-28-2008 09:04 PM
sailingdog A Yankee 30 is a pretty nice boat... and if it has been sitting for three years... you can probably beat the price down a fair bit.
09-28-2008 08:59 PM
blt2ski Let see how the weather holds and unfolds etc. If like yesterday, I am ok, if like today, with 15-20 knot winds, a 7th person on board y boat would be nice, or spouse may even duck out!

Also, I noticed across from me, a Yankee 30 for sale, and just found it online at Yachtworld too! They're ranging from 15-65K on Yachtworld, this one has not moved in the 3 yrs I have been in Edmonds. I would imagine bottom paint etc will need to be done along with some other trim work, but overall, she is nice looking. Probably on the high end for pricing IMHO.

marty
09-28-2008 02:48 PM
anthony11 Any suggestions on how I find / get signed up? I did some googling but found only an entry form for boat owners.

As to interiors, my wife's okay with pretty much anything.
09-28-2008 12:53 PM
blt2ski Hmmmmm, Duck Dodge......hmmmmmmm.... that is about as close to craziness of racing as one can get! Three classe's, fast, slow and dinghy, no rules per say other than "Dodge the Ducks". Honestly, that would be a bad comparison to wht a race is! You might check out the Sloop Tavern YC based in ST by the Gmnt Locks. They along with the Shilshoal bay YC sponser monday night racing from April to July/August or there abouts ie Ballard Cup. That is a much better "Race" to try and crew/do.

Also as I mentioned earlier, David is doing the FWB race out of Edmonds, as am I, I believe I have a full crew, not sure about Jody either, whom is also racing. But he usually has his harem onboard..... but being a he is 38' he can handle a few more folks.

Racing on the sound in class's with 8-12 boats is a lot different than the semi organized caos of the DD!

Then as far as what boat, spouse came in and harrased me for typing here, but said, do not get in a real hurry, you will know the boat when you know it! at least we were that way when we bought are used Jeanneau. Even going into new ones, she pretty much knows as she walks into the cabin, it either yes or no! For her, Catatina's are a NO! in and out about that fast. Hunters inside is hit and miss, Bene's are the same way, the Oceanus as a whole is Yuck, the 36.7first is ok, the 34.7 is out the door, same with the J105, but the 109 she likes.....Jeanneaus are generally speaking she likes the interior.........Then again, there are others on here that will say the exact opposite of my wifes tastes for the above boats too! You will know what is your boat style and "your" boat when you see her! In the mean time get on as many as you can. And as a parent of "4" kids, yes there will be more along at times, ie friends etc.

marty
09-28-2008 06:35 AM
anthony11
Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
There are plenty of ways to get yourself on the water, ie there are races almost if not, "EVERY" weekend of the yr here in Seattle.
I've had once experience with racing, a Duck Dodge that led me to believe that racing isn't for me. Perhaps a race out on the Sound would be less frantic. I've had the impression that racing crews were word-of-mouth and difficult to break into. If that's not the case, I'd be happy to give it a shot.
Quote:
Windworks or Seattle sailing is another option to make sure you and spouse can get on a boat too. Either of them will not put you initially on anything from what I under stand much bigger than a 25-27' boat.
The C25 I was tempted by is in fact brokered by Windworks, but isn't one of their club boats. They're also listing a club C25, though, and the $1500 delta in asking price is not in proportion to the apparent condition.
Quote:
You still have access to there class's, use of boats etc, for about the same price per month as moorage or a payment in and of itself.
Yep, I used to belong to ISC and sailed J22's out of Kirkland, so I know how it goes. Windworks is US Sailing, though, and I think I want to stick with ASA rather than starting from scratch. SSC has a flat-rate model that appeals to me for the idea (perhaps fanciful) that I'll be able to do a bunch of sailing next year, but their fleet is substantially J's, which aren't going to offer the amenities and motion comfort my family will want. Their C&C 30 and 36 would be better, but I'm sure there's contention for them. Windworks' low monthly membership and pay-as-you-go model will probably work best for me, at least for this next year, and their fleet is larger and more cruiser-oriented than SSC's.
Quote:
Another option, is to buy a boat and put it in the Windworks or SS program.
I talked to SSC about their program - didn't seem too appealing. They want at least a $45-70k boat, at least 32', and the economics and limited owner use are disappointing, especially with the abuse I'd expect club sailors to deliver. On a $45k boat ("a mid-80's Tartan or C&C 32") when pressured they told me the lease payment would be roughly $250, plus moorage. I would have the same access to it as any other club member, with only one outstanding reservation at a time.
Quote:
Another place to look at is "Sandpoint Sailing" they use smaller dinghy boats for there classes and members to use. Similar in program etc to WW or SS.
Yep, I've heard of them via the meetup. I've kinda had my fill of small boat sailing on Lake Washington, though, and want to move up to larger boats on the sound, with the ability to do day/weekend trips over to Bainbridge, Brownsville, etc.
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