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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > barrier coat
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-20-2009 02:18 AM
trecksail
Bottoms

Hello all,
Just read the entire thread and thought I'd toss in some personal experience. I work in a boat yard and do quite a bit of bottom stripping etc.
Hopefully this won't bring on more lawsuit crap here, but every boat that I have sanded down that had 2000 for a barrier coat had loads of blisters just under the 2000. Like the 2000 was letting water in but not letting it back out. I get in arguments with the other yard guys regularly about it as it's still the only barrier coat we seem to offer here. I get the inproper prep reply often but many of the boats come from many other yards. I couldn't fathom that everyone was doing it wrong so I re-read the directions on the 2000 can numerous times. For some reason, possibly it's just been added, I'd never noticed some small print that says to go to their website for their "full" tech sheat instructions if desired. I advise anyone considering 2000 to go to the site themselves and check it out. First of all, they require an initial coat of their own straight epoxy before the 2000, along with other pretty rigid steps to the point that I doubt any yard has ever followed, even if they'd somehow known the steps existed.

As far as major blister problems, I'd advise going with stripping the gellcoat. Gellcoat is 99% of the time polyester resin which is not as waterproof as epoxy resin. And the problem with blisters is that the water supposedly changes chemically when trapped in with resin to the point that it will almost never really dry out without incredible effort and months to years in a rediculously dry and warm environment. We've just trialed a new electric mechanical stripper and have to say it is the cat's meow. It's actually a paint stripper which is simular to a grinder but has 3 triangular blades which do the stripping. One guy took the entire bottom gellcoat off a 37 foot Pearson in about 6 hours. Damn near a perfect removal to the glass on his first time using the tool. It's called a paint shaver pro and came mounted on what seems to be a Hitachi grinder body. You can check it out at American International Tool Industries, Inc. LLC | Makers of the Paint Shaver Pro paint stripping, paint stripping tools, paint removal, paint removal tools, paint scrapers, lead paint removal, stripping lead paint, infrared paint heater. I'm not affiliated with em, but highly recomend it. Shaved to the glass quicker than even just sanding off the bottom paint alone. And it came with a vacume attatchment. Be prepared with ALOT of vacume bags but very little mess! Amazing tool.

Back to barrier coat. I will be going with straight West system epoxy on the Wanderer next winter. Just don't trust the whole microplatelet thing. How can millions of mechanic bonds to microplatelets be more impervious than a solid barrier completely chemically bonded to itself? Seems like a marketing gimmick to me. And as far as epoxies, I've seen MAS and can't say anything bad about them, but I absolutely love West System. I have never, ever heard anyone have West System fail. The only reason to me to even think about trying anything else is price, and these days there's just not enough difference in price to consider it. Hell, if all boats were built entirely out of West there wouldn't be a boat yard in business anywhere.
05-19-2009 02:13 PM
sailingdog That's cause he didn't do the bottom job... he contracted it out...and they left the dirt there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
Maine...I think I see a spec of dirt on your hull...WTH is going on??????
05-19-2009 10:38 AM
T37Chef Maine...I think I see a spec of dirt on your hull...WTH is going on??????
05-19-2009 01:00 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by T26Rich View Post
If I under stand it, it takes two days then. First day for the main areas, second day for the jack stand areas after moving stands, unless its 90 degrees out all day.
It's done in stages. IPK2E has a six month open window for hot coating IPK2E to itself but bottom paint must be done at thumbprint dry which can be tough on a large hull.

On my hull they barrier coated day one. Day two, after 24 hours, moved the stands and applied shrink wrap plastic to the heads and barrier coated a second coat. Day three, after 24 hours, moved stands back to original location barrier coated. For hot coating the paint they did the last pad spots after the two coats of paint had cured for two days then moved the stands and did barrier coat and paint hot coated at the pad spots. When all was said and done she had five coats of IPK2E and two coats of hot coated ablative copolymer paint. At 68 - 70 degrees it took two guys. One to get the last coat of barrier on and the otehr to follow shortly behind to begin hot coating paint. At 68-70 it kicks off in less than an hour to thumb print dry so you really need two people to do the last step right if it is near room temp.
05-19-2009 12:52 AM
T26Rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I wrote this up a while back, and it can be used to allow you to properly "hotcoat" the bottom paint as well as properly barrier coating the bottom.
If I under stand it, it takes two days then. First day for the main areas, second day for the jack stand areas after moving stands, unless its 90 degrees out all day.
05-19-2009 12:17 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarcher View Post
I may have to rethink this! This is going to cost a fortune!

Okay, so my 30 foot LOL boat is estimated to have 184 ft^2 to cover under the wateline.

If I want to use either Interlux VC Offshore or VC 17m Extra, the compatible barrier coat is VC Tar2.

VC Tar2 covers 460 ft^2 per gallon. Coats needed: from 5 to 7. So, 7 coats = 1,288 ft^2, which is 2.8 gallons or 11.2 quarts (it is only sold in quarts). 11 quartes = $517 + shipping!

And then there is the paint itself.

VC Offshore would need 3 coats, which needs 2.8 gallons. At $209 per gallon thats $627 bucks.

I think I'll look at more conventional barrier and anti-fouling options
You call that a lot? I just wrote a check for 8K to have mine done! Unfortunately I have done four full bottom jobs and vowed to never, ever do another. While writing that check sucked it still felt good.. Original quote was 5k but I added a bunch of stuff as we went along like wrapping the keel to hull joint, removing all thru-hulls and barrier coating under them etc etc.. At $80.00 per hour it adds up quick. This is why the only things I pay for are Awlgrip work and now bottom jobs..

05-18-2009 11:58 PM
sailingdog I wrote this up a while back, and it can be used to allow you to properly "hotcoat" the bottom paint as well as properly barrier coating the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Alternating the colors helps a lot with determining where you've painted, but it is also very useful for helping you coat the areas around the boat stands. For instance:

The first layer is gray, since the gelcoat is white, and you can paint right up to the boat stand pads. Then you paint a layer of white, and leave about a two-inch margin of gray paint around the pads... then paint a layer a gray and leave a four-inch margin around the pads or about two-inches of white and two inches of gray showing...and then finish with a layer of white—with a six-inch margin around the pads—with two inches of gray, two inches of white and two inches of gray.

Then when you move the boat stands, you can fill in the pads and layer the paint accordingly... adding gray to cover the white square left by the pad.. then white to cover the gray square, and so on.

Also, by alternating colors, you can see if someone has sanded through the barrier coat when you're prepping the boat for re-painting. If there's an area that is gray or grayish, they've sanded through at least the outermost layer of barrier coat. If you had all white, you wouldn't be able to tell if they had sanded down through the barrier coat as easily—if you had all gray, you could tell they sanded through the barrier coat...but not if they've sanded into it...

I hope this helps clear things up a bit.
05-18-2009 11:04 PM
T26Rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hey,


Depending on the particular barrier product you are using, there are all sorts of restrictions on when you can apply the barrier coat (temperature), how many coats of barrier you need, how much time you need to wait between applying the coats (and how long is too long), and finally, when you MUST apply the antifouling paint.


Barry
How did you manage the jack stands with the interprotect and still have it sticky before applying the bottom paint? I have an extra set of jack stands that I've used quite well to get all of the bottom paint off. Now with the weather hopefully cooperating I can apply Interprotect 2000E barrier coat and paint. Advice much appreciated.
04-26-2009 03:32 AM
jarcher
WOW, this stuff is EXPENSIVE

I may have to rethink this! This is going to cost a fortune!

Okay, so my 30 foot LOL boat is estimated to have 184 ft^2 to cover under the wateline.

If I want to use either Interlux VC Offshore or VC 17m Extra, the compatible barrier coat is VC Tar2.

VC Tar2 covers 460 ft^2 per gallon. Coats needed: from 5 to 7. So, 7 coats = 1,288 ft^2, which is 2.8 gallons or 11.2 quarts (it is only sold in quarts). 11 quartes = $517 + shipping!

And then there is the paint itself.

VC Offshore would need 3 coats, which needs 2.8 gallons. At $209 per gallon thats $627 bucks.

I think I'll look at more conventional barrier and anti-fouling options
04-26-2009 03:24 AM
jarcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
Does gelcoat not work as a barrier coat?
Well gel coat is a bit water permeable. The barrier coat is less so. This helps prevent against water getting in and causing blisters and other damage. This was discussed quite a bit earlier in this thread. It's a great thread, well worth reading from the top.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
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