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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Anchors; Plow v. Claw v. Delta v. Fluke
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Thread: Anchors; Plow v. Claw v. Delta v. Fluke Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-26-2009 04:22 PM
therapy23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANCORALATINA View Post
You know, anchors are like religion...

Or if you prefer like « therapy » : if you want to make a good therapy, one very important point is that you have TO PAY for it...

Please send me your check and as soon as I will receive it, I will send the anchor...

If, first you want to know what users think of it, have a look at: Testimonial

Well.........that is a few.
And started by a mod for a vendor. Not saying anything wrong with that, just not for me.
How many have you sold to date?
Is there an outlet in the US?
Have you been included in any of the tests by magazines etc?
I also know when starting a business some actually want to get their product "out there". Usually it is with free samples. I am not asking that at all. To me, fronting one for test and approval is a sign of confidence in a product.
I bet when some large group tests your anchor they don't guarantee it's return afterward, but I have not tried to have an anchor tested so it is only what I bet happens.
I also forget sometimes that in this day and age most cannot be trusted to pay on a "hand shake". I am not one of those but there is no way for you to know that. Sorry for my assumption.
As far as religion goes, everyone that I have met that did not like the one they had and was shopping for another actually went and tried others out first, then they paid.

Is there someone you have sold to in West Central Florida that I could contact to arrange a meet up with? I could test theirs at Anclote if they were amenable and it was the size for my boat.

Anyway, I usually am a tough customer (I expect advertised performance) and am tired of being ripped off. I find I need more of a safety net for me. And even with those I deploy I still lose out frequently.

And I know I said I can't trust my current anchor so why worry about trusting my boat to one that is most probably better? Hmmmm. I guess because the one I want is the one on top. Not in the top 5 somewhere.

Sorry for the ramblings.

Best of luck.
08-26-2009 12:50 PM
ANCORALATINA
Quote:
Originally Posted by therapy23 View Post
if you send me one and it works I will pay for it
You know, anchors are like religion...

Or if you prefer like « therapy » : if you want to make a good therapy, one very important point is that you have TO PAY for it...

Please send me your check and as soon as I will receive it, I will send the anchor...

If, first you want to know what users think of it, have a look at: Testimonial
08-25-2009 08:42 PM
therapy23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANCORALATINA View Post
João
You never answered when I asked for one of your anchors to use at Anclote where my Delta won't hold.

I still say if you send me one and it works I will pay for it and endorse it for you. If not I will front the shipping to return it.

Otherwise I guess it will be a Manson or Rocna.
08-25-2009 06:03 PM
ANCORALATINA
Anchor test by YACHT magazine!

A new anchor test has been published in the July Issue of the German Nautical magazine YACHT.

Unfortunately… in German!..

Just a few notes:

- Anchors have been tested in three different sea bottoms: Sand – marl/gravel – Mud.

- They have been using a Bavaria 38 sailing boat which is equipped with a Volvo engine D1-30, 20,1 kW / 27,3 hp, not powerful enough to give strong pulls, they have set the upper limit to 250 daN but they say that it is in the range of effort that can be measured with force 5 to 6 wind..

- Two winners with four stars are the Kobra II (198 euros) and the Supreme one ( 387 Euros)

- The Rocna achieved only 2 stars for a price of Euros 440……….

- Supreme ; In sand hold up to the limit 250 daN - in marl/gravel hold up to the limit 250 daN and set uncertainly at 150 DaN in Mud.

- Rocna: In sand hold up to the limit 250 daN – doesn’t set in marl/gravel – set badly in mud

No other "personal" comments..

João
08-24-2009 09:30 AM
lancelot9898
Quote:
Originally Posted by roline View Post
The cal 9.2 came with a danforth and 10 ft of chain, but had problems with holding the bottom. I sprung for a 22 lb bruce that came with 20ft of chain. Never an issue even when the winds change direction. I've seen the demos at the boat shows of the "new" anchor designs, but the bruce stowes nicely and deployes quickly and has held without issue. We raft up on overnighters and can have 4 boats on the one anchor. I still prefer the bruce design.
A friend uses a Bruce and on their way down the ICW they had trouble setting it because mud got lodged in between the three prongs and it would not reset. Only happened once and other times it did great. IMHO the resetting feature of the CQR is one reason why it is still a favorite among cruisers even with its poor showing against the newer designs. I'm using one of the newer designs now and with more experience with it, I'm gaining more confidence but the CQR is still available should the need arise.
08-23-2009 08:14 PM
roline The cal 9.2 came with a danforth and 10 ft of chain, but had problems with holding the bottom. I sprung for a 22 lb bruce that came with 20ft of chain. Never an issue even when the winds change direction. I've seen the demos at the boat shows of the "new" anchor designs, but the bruce stowes nicely and deployes quickly and has held without issue. We raft up on overnighters and can have 4 boats on the one anchor. I still prefer the bruce design.
08-22-2009 06:24 PM
kckclass
Undersized anchors are easier on the back

The reason I originally started using this method was that when it howls here in the morning there are boats on the rocks - literally. Every winter all the best gear, strong anchors, beefy new harbor installed moorings - you name it - they all break and snap. Alaskan storms pounding the San Francisco area get like that and it must be much worse in Alaska, Canada or Washington.

The first year I was here I used a 180 lb Danforth - low tensile - thick plates - with 3/4 inch chain on a 12 ton 41 foot ketch. I woke at 3am, had dragged, began throwing metal and chain over to stop me (it did) and it scared the crap out of me.

I read everything I could on moorings, bought the books, library time, the web sites - everything (scared is a good thing when it comes to anchoring). The next winter I simply put more scope and heavier metal down and it was a royal pain to haul it up to move the boat and reset in various places of the harbor. It took me 4 hours of winching and grinding to lift all that chain and anchors up - back breaking work.

Then a whopper blew through here and it dragged - hmmmpf!

So I tried the method I described above, which lightened the lifting of each anchor (they were a bit smaller - but there was TWO in line) and that made getting it up easier (its always nice when getting it up becomes easier - right?) and that worked. The whoppers came again and I didn't drag - hmmmm - just might work.

I also found that the lighter gear was much easier to lift - nice bonus.

Then I said "I want to sleep at night when these storms are blasting through." and after 5 years at anchor, I have learned to sleep even when the bow is pitching and tossing me 6 inches up, then down and I can still snooze. But to do that I have to:

a) keep a little Enya on the radio/CD player to hush the storms - it works for me

b) Eat well that night - no coffee

c) Keep the foulies and helmet and steel toe boots (see below) ready for the dash on deck if something breaks loose and starts to flog - rare these days as I double lash everything pretty tight, but one year I had the club foot come undone and billow out and had to go seize that down by throwing large chain over a whipping, dancing boom (fun stuff) while wearing a motorcycle helmet and welding leathers and steel toe boots (full protection - a football uniform with mouthpiece would have been appropriate for this task), and then diving on the boom with 30 feet of 3/4 inch chain in hand, chaining it down, then lashing it down while rollers broke over the bow - a really fun 80 knot night that was - oh boy.

d) and then for the ultimate in protection I started throwing out a second super-light anchor - as quoted in anchoring books "90 degrees off the starboard bow as the storm begins from the SSE, which will clock to the south, then west as it dies off" - which puts a V into the gear and I cinch the light anchor tight so the mooring heavies are barely doing any work.

This has given me a chance to test super-light danforths, my 45 lb bruce (a favorite) and the 60 lb CQR.

The bottom here is mud and sand.

Typically I use all line on the light anchor since it is only down for 1 night and I pull it up after the storm - a must - or it will wrap with the mooring chain and create a nightmare ball of metal down below that can send your boat to the rocks - which happened to a guy who did this and failed to lift the second anchor immediately after the storm.

Let me tell ya - that little 25 lb danforth in mud on 1 inch line holding a 12 ton 41 footer in 70 knots is a real jewel. TOTALLY undersized (but the mooring with the tandem set up is there to protect me). Nothing makes me happier and sleep easier than having two different anchor rigs out so if one fails the other is there and I can start 'pouring metal and chain over the side' if so required.

That rig buys me TIME, which one friend who's boat went to the rocks says "You have no time to catch yourself if your anchor breaks free and you drag." He was on board when that happened to him and he almost lost his boat - fortunately he hit a sandy beach and since its a protected harbor, breakers were only 4 - 6 feet and his boat survived. With all the rocks around here, he was plain lucky.

Anyway, in the morning when the storm subsides, I have to LIFT that little 25 lb danforth out of the mud and it isn't the weight that's an issue - that's a piece of cake - its the fact that it really dug in during the storms. Typically I tie it to the stern, ease the boat so I am directly over it and then let the tide lift the boat and pull the anchor while I check emails and sip coffee. When I look out and see I have spun, I know the danforth is free and I haul it up, clean the mud and lash t in the shrouds on its line, ready to kick over anytime I have a storm warning. Works like a charm. It also means I get to check the 'wear' on the anchor rode after pulling it up and its been fine, but I still usually adjust the anchor bowline so I change the wear point in between storms.

So in a 50 - 70 knot blow I can go out on deck, look at that line pulled tight on the little danforth - pay out a nip or two (2 - 4 inches) on the mooring bridle (every 2-3 hours) so I move the wear point on that and when I go below, to my wood stove (don't laugh - that turkey sized oven I made from an 80 gallon stainless fuel tank keeps me warmer than any diesel stove I have ever owned and the fumes are zero compared to burning diesel) strip, dry off, hang the gear over the stove so its toasty warm when I go back out in 3 hours, crawl into bed, set the 3 hour alarm and pass out.

If anything breaks I will hear it - I am right next to the bow.

If anything breaks I have a back up in place - so I have time to save the boat.

If anything breaks I have plenty of metal ready to throw. Since I surf and have surfed in much worse conditions (30 footers) than the 6 foot breakers in the harbor, I also have the wet suit ready and if I had to jump in to fix something or lash to another mooring or ??? I can certainly do that too, but so far haven't had that need.

I have a saying for the harbor master here - I WILL NOT GO TO THE ROCKS - and every year 5 - 10 - 15 boats do.

The most important thing is to sleep at night and every few hours, go up on the bouncing, splashing deck (the thrill ride) - and make sure everything is tight, working, balanced load, and watch with amazement at that little danforth doing a great job.

Would I recommend it alone? NO WAY. Its a back up lunch hook doing a 7 course dinner meal of a job and I love testing it that way, just as I used to test the bruce (claw) and cqr.

Plenty of folks here have said they use this or that method and most of them, even one guy who was a 'hired TransPac Gun' has seen his two boats go sailing without him several times and he uses thick chain and lots of heavy metal - but for whatever reason - it just doesn't hold or isn't reliable.

The system I have used has served me well for 10 years. I don't drag. I get to sleep at night and the gear I have to lift afterwards is light and lifts pretty fast once the rising boat (tide) breaks it free - which is a huge plus compared to my first few years at anchor.
08-21-2009 09:39 AM
robtriangle
Anchor tests

Any recommendations on review articles comparing CQR, fluke and claw?
07-08-2009 08:36 AM
sailingdog Yes, but if you really require both anchors any significant percentage of the time, IMHO, your anchors are seriously undersized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kckclass View Post
TWO anchors in line, with about 120% - 150% of the DEPTH OF WATER between them (so you only have to lift one at a time). Put the heavy one in the middle and lay the first leg of chain in between (no swivel required in there - just a swivel at the top by the bow)...then 5 to 1, 7 to 1 scopeetc. (I have 10 to 1) and it holds unlike anything I have ever used, doesn't foul and you can go a little lighter in weight on each so its easier on the back and the windlass.
07-08-2009 07:02 AM
kckclass
Proves (a little) what I said about anchors

TWO anchors in line, with about 120% - 150% of the DEPTH OF WATER between them (so you only have to lift one at a time). Put the heavy one in the middle and lay the first leg of chain in between (no swivel required in there - just a swivel at the top by the bow)...then 5 to 1, 7 to 1 scopeetc. (I have 10 to 1) and it holds unlike anything I have ever used, doesn't foul and you can go a little lighter in weight on each so its easier on the back and the windlass.

A friend with a huge 65 foot wooden boat (30 tons plus) couldn't pay his marina bill. He was so afraid of moving his vessel to the anchorage and had insufficient gear for any sort of 40 knot plus blow.

But he did have some fairly good chain and a 65 lb high tensile, thin plate danforth (usual style) and we found a rusty old 180 lb low tensile, thick plate danforth. We put the light one at the end of the chain - 40 feet of 3/4 inch chain - then the heavy 180 - then 100 ft of 1/2 inch chain and a good new 1 inch swivle up by the bow which he has two nylon rods with eyes attached to it and dual floats on each line (I have suggested a chain backup, but he doesn't use it) - in 20 feet of water.

A good 40 with 60 gusts summer gale came through that lasted on and off for 3 days and he never budged. He's getting used to being at anchor now and loves it.

While I know folks in marinas (especially with wives and dogs that need walking) think anchoring out is foul business, I've been off the grid for 9 years now on the hook and would never go back to the dock. The two anchor system has been the only system that has never failed me with my 15 ton 46 foot ferro ketch/cutter...with low freeboard...the only ferro (according to the harbor master) that has any potential...sweet girl she is and tough and solid as tungsten.

However, even when I used a single 180 lb danforth and 170 ft of chain or nearly 10 to 1 scope it failed in a 70 knot blow and I dragged 100 yards. Fortunately it was 200 yards to the rocks and the storm petered out in a few hours and I threw more metal on the bottom to lock me in that night.

Whereas the 2 anchor system, with both anchors lighter than the 180 lb, when configured in line as described above, has held in 80 knots thereafter and it never moves.
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