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Centerboard Winch Cable

12K views 35 replies 7 participants last post by  kwaltersmi 
#1 ·
The cable on my centerboard winch is starting to show some meathooks so I think it's time to replace it while the boat is still on the hard. Has anyone done this repair yet? Any tips?

How long is the cable? I'm assuming about 10' will suffice since the centerboard swings down to around 6' below the waterline and then there needs to be some reserve as well as a foot or two to reach up to the winch. I'll measure when I get good enough weather to make a trip to the marina.

How is the cable attached to the winch? Will I need any special tools or parts?
 
#2 ·
Some of the one's I've worked on have a hole that the wire feeds through and then a Nicopress stop sleeve is crimped on the end.
Others have a hole and with an intersecting hole for a set screw.

Sometimes it can be difficult to feed the wire through the hole. A trick that may make it easier is to wrap impregnate the wire with superglue and wrap it tightly in the area you are going to cut it before cutting it.
 
#3 ·
Kevin:

I'm doing the same protect this year. I have a meat hook I can feel when the winch is up. I would say from the tip of the 6' keel back to the fixed keel would be about 8' plus another 3' up the trunk and into the winch. But I'll measure my old one first. I can sling the boat high enough in my barn when I paint the bottom to drop the centerboard down a couple of feet and get access to the connection point.
Some of the winches have been replaced over the years and I hope not with a trailer winch. the original is clutch drive so it can't freefall. Mine goes into a serpentine on the spool. I have to get a better look at it with the winch and wire off. I also want to get a good diameter measurement. It looks like 1/4" by eye.
The centerboard connection is made by 2 tangs of metal (I think bronze) with a clevis pin through a hole in the centerboard and a clevis pin through a sage terminal at the end of the cable. I'm going to use a Suncor quick connect rigging terminal on mine. It will be smaller and smoother than a nicro press fitting so it doesn't hit the fiberglass trunk on the way up.
The biggest part of the project will be looking at and fixing if worn the guide pulley that is up in the trunk. These can get seized and stop rotating. Then the cable wares a groove in the pulley and might ware through the pulley pin. I have a 2"x2" SS plate on each side of trunk a few inches below the copper tee entrance point at the top of the trunk. I took these off to see if i could get to the guide pulley, but it looks like it was glassed over. I could see the indentation of the 1/4" to 3/8" shaft through the pulley, so the fiberglass isn't that thick there. This is close to the water line of the boat and could leak. I'm going to try to wrap a 1/4" line or cable over the pulley and see if mine is free and if not try to free it up. Catalina uses the same set up and you can get replacement pulley and kit from Catalina Direct.
I also have a groove in the copper tee at the top of the trunk. Its starting to go into the clear vinyl hose. My plan is to use Marine Tex to fill and fair the groove and replace the 2 different size vinyl hoses.

Here are some pictures of the centerboard connection.





 
#4 ·
Thanks for the information Wayne. Based on my limited research so far, it looks like the cable will need to be replaced with a stainless steel equivolent. Is that what you're thinking of using?

Where can the Suncor terminal be purchased?

My initial thinking was that this was going to be a fairly straight forward and easy project, but I'm starting to doubt that now.
 
#5 ·
After a little more research, it looks like I could purchase a 1/8" swage eye ($9.99), 15' of 1/8" 1x19 SS wire ($26.85) and have the fitting swaged on for $8.99 through Defender. Given that I don't deal with saltwater or tropical conditions, I'm thinking the 1x19 wire (302/304 grade) should be sufficient. Also, the 1/8" is rated at a breaking strength of 2,100lbs, which should be plenty for the centerboard.

Am I missing anything?
 
#7 ·
Kevin:
Is your cable 1/8" now? I assume the original was thicker. 1/8" may have the working load strength, but think about what would happen if it ever did break, a real nightmare. In case some strands would break I would stay with the 1/4" or whatever you have now. I still need to measure mine.
AND don't use 1 x 19 wire. I'm not an expert, but I think 1x19 wire is for standing rigging and not flexible enough for winch work. I think you need 7x19 flexible wire.
Here is a place for the swageless fitting. Quick Attach stainless steel rigging swageless mechanical fittings out preforms Sta Loc Stay Lock Norseman
 
#10 ·
The Nicro press might not be too bad if you would use rescue tape around it and made it taper to the cable. You might have to redue the tape each year, but no biggy and you would want to check for corrosion in the Nicro press anyhow. Should be less expensive. Do you have a hand held Nicro press tool or know someone that does. If you buy the wire at West Marine, they might do the nicro press for you free in the store. You buy the fitting.
 
#12 ·
Patrick:
Any idea how Amsteel would hold up with chaff if it rubs on the centerboard trunk and guide block in the centerboard trunk? If it wares well it might be a good substitute. They didn't have these fibers when our boats were made.
 
#22 ·
If everything is lined up properly chafe is not an issue. Chafing would be an even bigger issue with the steel wire. It would literally slice right through your centreboard trunk. They actually make saw blades that are a simple strand of wire. They even use them to cut up ships but those are diamond impregnated..

You might have to change any sheaves as the profile for steel wire is very different from that used by cordage.

Chafing is an evil problem. Even in a Laser, a little sand at the bottom of the step will cut right through the glass. They actually make a repair kit that involves cutting the deck apart and glassng in a new step.
 
#13 ·
I just got a quote from a local rigging shop for 12' of 1/4" 7x19 SS wire with a swage fitting for $28.99. That seems like a very good price. Now all I need to do is head over to the boat and confirm sizes/lengths and make sure my centerboard connections is like the pictures Wayne posted. I also need to determine how the wire is attached to the winch.
 
#14 ·
Do you centerboarders like your setup? In looking around at boats I've been really shunning the the cb-s because it just seems like another thing to have to mess with and possibly fail in a pinch. And I wonder about their true effectiveness while sailing. I'm really ignorant on it from a design perspective - so I'm curious about your thoughts.
 
#15 ·
What I like most about having a centerboard is the ability to reduce my boat's draft to about only 18-20". I could theoretically beach the boat or access some really shallow gunkholes. However, given that I sail in Lake Michigan and that there are not a lot of shoals or shallow areas, I don't really need a shallow draft boat. This feature might be more beneficial in a tidal area or coastal backwaters.

Another advantage is that I can keep the board fully retracted when sailing on a broad reach or downwind and thus reduce wetted surface area and pick up a bit of speed.

There are some downsides. For one, the upkeep mentioned here in this thread. There's also a pivot bolt that can leak if not properly maintained/inspected. However, many fixed keel boats still also have issues such as corroded keel bolts. It's a tradeoff.

I also tend to think that my particular boat would be less tender if it had a deeper fixed keel in place of the centerboard/swingkeel. I have no way of knowing this for certain, but the physics in my head seem to suggest it.
 
#17 ·
C/B the depth gauge for dorks

It would be difficult to compare all C/B boats in one fell swoop, that said the Helms 25 is the only Helms w/Centerboard (24, 25, 27, 30, 32) and it has a well pronounced keel that allows it to sail with the board up quite effectively. The board is most noticable when beating into the wind the centerboard down helps the pointing.
As an amature sailor I have welcomed the pennance and privacy of going below to crank on the C/B winch, 16 full rev's on mine will release me from the shallow water that has trapped me yet again. It may be good to point out that the rudder is two part and also kicks up from the force of earth impact. The force on the rudder is then magnified, it's like losing the power steering on a truck.
The Helms Centerboard is 1" thick steel weighing in at 300# and lowers the center of gravity as well as drawing neat lines in the mud prior to earth impact, see above.
 
#19 ·
Smack:
All what Kevin & David said. Our fixed keel also has 1650# of ballast which really helps stabilize our boats. The 20" draft with centerboard up and 6' with it down really is perfect for the sailing I do in coastal Delmarva bays.
The impressive thing about our centerboards is they do not need and really shouldn't be sailed all the way down. We really lower them until the boat sailing is balanced or slight weather helm. That's about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down with a 112% jib up. The centerboard can also be used to balance the pointing on heaving to.
You also asked about setup. I like our winch and cable setup compared to other centerboards boats I've seen. Our winch is under the first step going down in the compaionway. With the handle left pointing to port it is out of the way. A big problem on other designs. The only thing I would like to see changed is the steel centerboard replaced with bronze. Someday when I win the lottery I'll have one cast in bronze.
 
#23 ·
Has anyone verified how the wire is attached to the actual winch? I've been told many manufacturers fed the wire through a hole in the winch drum and then used a press fitting to hold it in place. Did Helms do it this way?

I'd look for myself, but my boat isn't currently elevated high to drop the board down far enough so I can check. Hopefully I'll get it hoisted in a couple of weeks.
 
#24 ·
Kevin:

I'm going by memory from the fall, but I think mine does a surpentine (an S) on the winch drum and is clamped to the drum by a screw and a piece of metal formed the shape of the cable. I know David's winch is different than mine in that it has a different ratio. I take 30 turns to fully extend and he takes about half that.
 
#25 ·
I finally made it back out to the marina and worked on the boat today. My centerboard wire appears to be 3/16" and is attached to the winch spool by passing through a hole in the spool and then using a press fitting on the other side to hold it in place.

For some reason I'm nervous about attempting this repair on my own. I have a feeling it will be more difficult than it sounds. Can someone confirm that the little metal plate on the side of where the cable passes through the hull is the inspection plate for the sheave? I'm assuming that's what it's for, but I haven't taken it off yet because it's sealed with what looks like 3M 5200.

Here's how I'm planning to tackle the repair:
1) Have marina lift the boat just high enough to allow the pennant attachment on the board to be accessible while still having the board rest on the ground to take the pressue off of the winch.
2) Unhook the pennant from centerboard.
3) Remove winch from step/mounting to give access to backside where the press fitting is for attaching the wire and spool.
4) Cut the wire using bolt cutters.
5) Remove the wires from both the bottom of the boat and from the winch spool.
6) Thread new wire up from bottom of boat over the sheave and up to the winch.
7) Attach new wire to winch spool with press fitting.
8) Remount winch.
9) Attach pennant to centerboard.
10) Raise the board back up into the trunk.
11) Launch the boat!!!

Am I missing any steps?

FYI - Today was very productive. I painted the bottom with anti-fouling paint, waxed the hullsides, deck and cockpit, oiled the exterior teak, and painted the trailer. The last thing to do before splashing her for season number 2 is replacing the centerboard wire!
 
#26 ·
I finally made it back out to the marina and worked on the boat today. My centerboard wire appears to be 3/16" and is attached to the winch spool by passing through a hole in the spool and then using a press fitting on the other side to hold it in place.

For some reason I'm nervous about attempting this repair on my own. I have a feeling it will be more difficult than it sounds. Can someone confirm that the little metal plate on the side of where the cable passes through the hull is the inspection plate for the sheave? I'm assuming that's what it's for, but I haven't taken it off yet because it's sealed with what looks like 3M 5200.

Here's how I'm planning to tackle the repair:
1) Have marina lift the boat just high enough to allow the pennant attachment on the board to be accessible while still having the board rest on the ground to take the pressue off of the winch.
2) Unhook the pennant from centerboard.
3) Remove winch from step/mounting to give access to backside where the press fitting is for attaching the wire and spool.
4) Cut the wire using bolt cutters.
5) Remove the wires from both the bottom of the boat and from the winch spool.
6) Thread new wire up from bottom of boat over the sheave and up to the winch.
7) Attach new wire to winch spool with press fitting.
8) Remount winch.
9) Attach pennant to centerboard.
10) Raise the board back up into the trunk.
11) Launch the boat!!!

Am I missing any steps?

FYI - Today was very productive. I painted the bottom with anti-fouling paint, waxed the hullsides, deck and cockpit, oiled the exterior teak, and painted the trailer. The last thing to do before splashing her for season number 2 is replacing the centerboard wire!
Please don't think that I am trying to discourage you, but I would suggest that if there is someone qualified at the yard where you are hauling, you have them at least take a look and give you their opinion as to how far you need to go.
Your turning sheaves may only need to be lubed.

Most of the time when I'm asked to replace a cable, that's all I do. I attach the new to the old and pull it through. I don't try to thread it in after removing the old one completely unless there is a problem somewhere.
 
#30 ·
Knothead - Good advice...thanks!

How do you attach the old cable to the knew? I think that's a good idea and is probably much easier than trying to thread the new cable through on it's own.
Carefully unlay the strands of the ends of both cables. The old and the new. Cut off two or three inches of about 1/2 of the strands of one of the cables and cut the opposite strands of the other cable the same way.

Then lay them up together. If you're careful, there should be no increase in diameter.

Put a thin layer of electrical tape over it and you're set. Just don't pull it real hard. Have someone at the other end if possible to push and rotate in case it try's to hang up somewhere.
If you want to be real safe, soak the connection with superglue before you tape it. You will be able to pull it pretty hard without it coming apart then.

Good luck! :)
 
#28 ·
Kevin:

I have 2 - approx 2" x 2" stainless steel plates on the centerboard trunk below the entrance point of the cable. I assumed they are for access to the sheave. When I unscrewed mine, it was sealed with a thick red gasket material. No opening was behind the plate. I could see a faint outline of a 3/8" circle at the edge of the fiberglass. I assumed this was the end of the sheave shaft. I didn't want to disturb it and screwed the stainless steel plates back on. If yours has 5200 or a white caulking, someone might have already accessed the sheave for servicing.
 
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