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  Topic Review (Newest First)
4 Hours Ago 06:42 PM
MedSailor
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I agree. But at 50+ knots, I don't think it's really about sail shape anymore - per se. It's more just about stability and directional assistance - and the amount of sail...
Ummm... No. Shape counts exponentially more at high winds. Increased draft and camber increase drag and power which causes you to heel more.

You want a flat blade that develops lift and forward motion in gusts not just drah and power which will knock you down.

With poor shape you'll have to reduce sail because of heel and you'll be under driven and more at risk of knockdown.

BTDT with the partially rolled furler in a blow. Slow going with lots of heel means you're in it longer and its less comfortable.

Medsailor


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
8 Hours Ago 03:14 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windkiller View Post
Anyway , i generally try to trust my own instincts and listen to advice if it seems sensible. I like a good adventurous sail, seeing the boat I'm in rushing through the elements, Exciting stuff. But I'm not the type to jump out of perfectly good airplanes or knowingly seek perilous situations. Things can go awfully wrong, awfully quickly
Bingo. The key is to deal with the crap that you find yourself in - for whatever reason - and get home safely. That's BFS in my book.
8 Hours Ago 03:11 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
Don't think rolling more in would do anything for sail shape which is, to me, the biggest draw back of a furler. It is a consideration for me as I have furler rigged mast headed sloop too.
I agree. But at 50+ knots, I don't think it's really about sail shape anymore - per se. It's more just about stability and directional assistance - and the amount of sail. Sure, ideally you want to blade ANY sail out as much as you can in those conditions (and the one in the video has way too much belly in my opinion - and you can see the results in the one knockdown) - but are you really wanting to shape a foil in wind like that?

To me the video shows that it would be much better if he had a bit less sail out and was heading downwind (like in the other video I posted of the sloop in the F10/11 conditions that was doing much better than this boat). He's definitely pushing the boat in this vid. Even so, it's doing pretty well.
8 Hours Ago 02:32 PM
Windkiller
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

I couldn't agree more! I had even researched it all ahead of time and planned it out.
I was planning on getting up at 7 and heading out by 8:30 and hitting the pass right at slack, It was my first time solo in that boat and my first time crossing the Straight, prudence seemed to be sensible. One doesn't &^%*^& with Nature!
It was the boat's owner and the fellow we were staying with (largely a power boater I believe), both with way more experienced than I on the water, who said that I shouldn't worry about it, that I would "fly back to Vancouver" with the flood and the wind!!
Maybe they were talking literally??!! I did feel like I was airborne a couple times.
Anyway , i generally try to trust my own instincts and listen to advice if it seems sensible. I like a good adventurous sail, seeing the boat I'm in rushing through the elements, Exciting stuff. But I'm not the type to jump out of perfectly good airplanes or knowingly seek perilous situations. Things can go awfully wrong, awfully quickly
9 Hours Ago 01:59 PM
jackdale
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windkiller View Post
Weeell
My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo sailing my friend's home built wooden 20 ft George Holme's Eel inspired Canoe Yawl, Pilgrim's Wake for the first time.
I let myself be convinced by those 'more experienced' that sleeping in and riding the tide through Porlier pass(where the current can get up to 8 knots) into the strait where it was forecast to blow 10-15knots would be a good idea( I had planned to hit the pass at slack, take it easy in the lighter late morning breezes)
Anyone with any "experience" of Porlier Pass and Georgia Strait should have known better. A flood current and NE winds are going to result in steep waves.

Your plan was much, much better.
9 Hours Ago 01:34 PM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I think I saw somewhere that he reported 50 knots. Looks close to that in the vid. And I agree on the sail shape. To me he had a bit too much out for the conditions, and I assume he didn't have the sea room to run off. Pretty lousy shape, but that boat was definitely eating it up...and so was he.
Don't think rolling more in would do anything for sail shape which is, to me, the biggest draw back of a furler. It is a consideration for me as I have furler rigged mast headed sloop too.
11 Hours Ago 11:28 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
I think the 'money' shot was the cut showing the headsail from atop the forestay. The sail shape you see is what you would want on a broad reach rather than beating to windward as they are doing.

I don't view the sailing conditions as 'extreme'. Yes it is sporty but I do not really see much green water.
I think I saw somewhere that he reported 50 knots. Looks close to that in the vid. And I agree on the sail shape. To me he had a bit too much out for the conditions, and I assume he didn't have the sea room to run off. Pretty lousy shape, but that boat was definitely eating it up...and so was he.
11 Hours Ago 11:25 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windkiller View Post
Weeell
My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo.....
Oh hell yeah!!

19 Hours Ago 04:08 AM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Another sloop in a storm? With a rolling furler.
I think the 'money' shot was the cut showing the headsail from atop the forestay. The sail shape you see is what you would want on a broad reach rather than beating to windward as they are doing.

I don't view the sailing conditions as 'extreme'. Yes it is sporty but I do not really see much green water.
19 Hours Ago 04:01 AM
Windkiller
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Weeell
My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo sailing my friend's home built wooden 20 ft George Holme's Eel inspired Canoe Yawl, Pilgrim's Wake for the first time.
I let myself be convinced by those 'more experienced' that sleeping in and riding the tide through Porlier pass(where the current can get up to 8 knots) into the strait where it was forecast to blow 10-15knots would be a good idea( I had planned to hit the pass at slack, take it easy in the lighter late morning breezes)
Had a nice sail around Thetis Island and to the pass under all sail (main jib mizzen). I went into Porlier pass with the big gaff main up but under power (6hp one lung inboard diesel, bukka bukka bukka) Had the Main up in case of engine failure. Hit 9 knots going through the pass and had to contend with whirlpools that would throw my bow around like mad. There was a big roughly 40 ft sailboat ahead of me and as the line of white tide rip at the entrance to the straight (that we were both aiming to avoid) suddenly swung over in front of us, i saw this big boat start to buck and twist at times dropping out of sight! Needless to say I wasn't thrilled. I started experiencing the same sorts of things and at this point I clipped in.

Pilgrims Wake is small ,stoutly built , but low in the water and I would look up to see these waves coming at me with these nice ice-bergy translucent green tops with the sun shining through them. The main was still up and the wind was from the North East, at least 15 knots and hitting me right on the beam (as were the waves) so I turned into it a bit to avoid being pushed over.
Then I got hit by a huge wave that ran down the length of the boat soaking me to the skin and filling the cockpit(happily self-draining) I lost sight of the other boat in front of me at times. The waves seemed to be about 6-8 ft and were very close together. There was no gently riding up and down on them and they usually loomed above me in a menacing fashion.
I would go up, up, up one and then boom down into the trough if I didn't manage it just right.
At this point I tried to take down the main , using the tiller pilot to steer me into the wind but when I scuttled forward to bring the gaff down ,the tiller pilot couldn't handle the conditions and was basically useless, letting the wind and waves push me sideways, so I left the main up.
Despite the sun I was shivering , soaked and cold and when the second big wave ran down the boat and hit me smack in the face, filling the cockpit again etc, I got &*^%*(& mad!! I was still scared but now I was more mad than scared!
I started to plan for things like capsize, Using the radio to call for help etc. I could see the big 40 boat way to the south of me heading across the straight only flying a tiny hanky of a roller furled jib.

I looked over to Vancouver and knew that it was at least 4 hours away and there was NO way I could turn back as my max hull speed was 6 knots and the current in the pass was at least as fast.
I couldn't leave the tiller, couldn't eat, couldn't &^%*&^ pee. At one point I did manage to change into a dry set of clothes that I had but then BOOM another huge wave washed down the boat at mid mast height and soaked me again making me even more mad!! &^(&*^*( waves!!! &^%*&^ wind!!!!

I then (to maintain my spirits and because I was feeling a little crazy) started to sing every song I ever knew at the top of my lungs. I even sang 100 bottles of beer on the wall which incidentally takes approx 13 min including melodic variations (musician)
It was pretty consistent all the way across, big chop with a 15-20 knot wind whipping the tops. The diesel kept chugging along and I was spilling wind out of the main like crazy to stay upright(basically on a beam reach of sorts)
After about 3 hours of this I found I was heading too far north (and I really had to &*^%(*& pee) as I tried to keep the bow taking the waves at an angle.
So I made the nerve-wracking decision to turn downwind and take the waves and the wind on the port stern quarter.

This was actually a lot less tense, despite having to saw the tiller back and forth like mad as the waves pushing me from behind caused me to swing all over the place. It was psycholgically beneficial to not have to watch them coming at me! As the 3000 lbs 20 ft Pilgrims Wake was now surfing these big waves I pulled the board up and killed the engine. At points I hit 11 knots (on the GPS)...pretty exhilarating until I would look behind me and see a 20 ft log sail past my stern..... This immediately got me scanning the water ahead for similar hazards. I would see none, relax, then look behind me and see another giant nasty looking log that had just missed me sail past, repeat... So know I'm actually sailing, just on the gaff main (actually more of an almost vertical gunter rig) and the pressure on the 18' mast had the forestay idly swing back and forth and I was flying. It was pretty cool and despite still being cold I wasn't nearly as scared or mad

As I approached Point Grey (after about 4 hours) the conditions moderated a bit and I was able to pee!! and actually eat something.
Came into English bay and the conditions there, which would normally have had me white knuckling it in my dinghy, seemed calm and pleasant. When I got home (after motoring under two bridges in Burrard inlet I actually kissed the earth when i got off the dock. Didn't dampen my enthusiasm but I wouldn't knowingly head into those conditions again as it wasn't pleasant and I'm somebody who enjoys a good vigorous sail! It was arduous, cold, wet and nerve-wracking!
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