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Sabre 42 versus J/44: why such difference in prices?

21K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  CBinRI 
#1 ·
I was looking in yachtworld at prices for the Sabre 42 and J/44. Three Sabre 42s for sale, average ask price of $158k, between 1987 and 1989. Five J/44s for sale, average ask price of of $272k, all between 1990 and 1992. So the J/44s are a bit newer, and it's a somewhat bigger boat. But why such difference in prices? Both are excellent quality from what I gather. Both built with similar materials. What am I missing?
 
#3 ·
The J44 is actually a much bigger boat, with 5' more waterline, 15-20% more displacement, 3 private sleeping cabins vs. 2, etc.

It's also got more sail area, and might be a handful for a couple on a breezy daysail, but a fast and exciting ride.

Are you cruising or racing? Do you need the room? Can you live with the draft? (the J draws 8', a CB Sabre 42' draws less than 5' board up)

If sailing with more than 4 people was in my plans, or serious racing, I would go with the J. If I was cruising with my wife and kids, I'd rather have the Sabre. If my kids were teens and wanted to bring a gang, I'd pick the J. Both are really good boats.

The active racing fleet has really helped the J's maintain value, but they are good boats anyway.

Either boat, well maintained, would be a joy. Good Luck.

If you look at more recent Sabre 402's or 425's, they are more expensive than the older 42's.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies. So what other boats are there comparable to the Sabre 42? I'd like to get a short list of boats that are well built with quality components by a reputable builder, are relatively fast, have enough room for a family of 5 to go cruising, can be sailed by 2 people, and are priced under $150k. I would prefer a sloop with fin keel and fractional rig for no other reason than that's what I'm used to. It seems hard to find fractional rigs, though. The type of sailing that I would do would be a) day sailing possibly out of Corpus Christi, b) a 1-month vacation to the Yucatan Peninsula, and c) a 1-year trip to the Caribbean. I'm not American, I'm from Argentina. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why some boats are priced so much higher than others of similar size and age. For example in a "Sailing" magazine from several months back, they showed two boats of similar size: a Tartan (42' or 43') and a Jeanneau of similar size. The Tartan was listed at about twice as much as the other one. The only notable difference I saw in the specs was that the Tartan had a carbon fiber spar. Maybe Tartan is a Mercedes and Jeanneau is a Pontiac? That's the thing I'm lacking about American boats, it's the knowledge of who is who in the business.
 
#10 ·
The specs are only a small part of what drives the price. As to the Tartan and Jeanneu, the Tartan has been considered to be of a higher buld quality and more of a blue water boat. Price will be driven not only by build quality but can also turn on whether a particular model has caught on as a popular one-design class, for example.

The Sabre 42 was one of the boats I looked at and liked. Sabre is a high end production boat. IMHO, well above the Catalinas and Hunters, but substantially more expensive. I think of Tartans as a similar in quality although some are reporting that their quality has come down lately. I ended up buying a substantially older boat (Swan 41) that I am very happy with.

If you have questions about particular boats, people around here are generally willing to chime in with their thoughts.
 
#7 ·
FrancoC,

It has been my unscientific observation that Sabres do not hold their value as well as some other brands that are in the same initial price range. I do not know why, it's just something I've noticed over the years.

As you compare these two boats, be sure to notice the difference in cockpit designs. If you are searching for a boat on which your family can campaign in club races, then yes, the J-boat would work well.

But, if you are looking for more of a cruising design, I would not think of the J-boat's cockpit as especially well suited for family sailing. Too many concessions to racing, and an aft section lacking sunken cockpit seating.

However, the 3-cabin layout of the J44 would be advantageous for cruising with 3 kids. But there are other boats out there that blend 3 cabins with good family-friendly cruising designs.
 
#14 ·
Thank you. Take after their momma - thank goodness for them!!!

FrancoC,

I would highly suggest trying to find a way to visit with and get to know cruising/LA families with kids or those that have done it. It will really change your perspective on many things. I have seen countless times here where people will post things that simply would be very arduous if not out right impossible when you have kids. It also has to change your level of safety and destinations to many respects.

We can discuss a bunch of this.

Brian
 
#16 ·
Feel free to ignore this, but it sounds like you may take the family on an offshore passage. You might be happier with something that has seaberths where you don't have to worry about the kiddos rolling around so much. Narrow single berths are great for kids, and on passage get the crew home well rested. But they are rare in modern boats, which, frankly, are more at home in a marina than sailing offshore.

It's a bolt out of the blue, and again, feel free to ignore, but look at this:

1975 Nautor Swan Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

These older Swans are tanks, you can have 2 girls in bed in the pilot berths while you play scrabble on the saloon table. The cabin is not so large that you can get pitched across it and injured while at sea, it has a true seagoing galley for preparing meals underway. It will probably come with a bunch of gear, has full safety gear (which I can attest is quite expensive). It apparently sailed in the 2000 Newport-Bermuda, which has one of the most stringent safety inspections. Being a pedigreed boat, will always be worthy of upgrades. And it will sail well.

I have a boat with pilot and quarter berths, and have hundreds of offshore miles with a little kid aboard. The ability to put him in a snug, secure pilot berth with a lee cloth when he was 8 years old offshore was invaluable. Secure single bunks for the off watch are not a luxury, they are a necessity.

If you are going to stay near shore or just daysail and weekend, ignore me.

Good luck!
 
#21 ·
Feel free to ignore this, but it sounds like you may take the family on an offshore passage. You might be happier with something that has seaberths where you don't have to worry about the kiddos rolling around so much. Narrow single berths are great for kids, and on passage get the crew home well rested. But they are rare in modern boats, which, frankly, are more at home in a marina than sailing offshore.

It's a bolt out of the blue, and again, feel free to ignore, but look at this:

1975 Nautor Swan Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

These older Swans are tanks, you can have 2 girls in bed in the pilot berths while you play scrabble on the saloon table. The cabin is not so large that you can get pitched across it and injured while at sea, it has a true seagoing galley for preparing meals underway. It will probably come with a bunch of gear, has full safety gear (which I can attest is quite expensive). It apparently sailed in the 2000 Newport-Bermuda, which has one of the most stringent safety inspections. Being a pedigreed boat, will always be worthy of upgrades. And it will sail well.

I have a boat with pilot and quarter berths, and have hundreds of offshore miles with a little kid aboard. The ability to put him in a snug, secure pilot berth with a lee cloth when he was 8 years old offshore was invaluable. Secure single bunks for the off watch are not a luxury, they are a necessity.

If you are going to stay near shore or just daysail and weekend, ignore me.

Good luck!
I have a '76 '41 and it is an awesome family boat.
 
#24 ·
What about all the teak on the deck? Does it take a lot more maintenance than a fiberglass deck?
When it comes time to replace it, it is expensive. Other than that, not so much. Remember that it is not the kind of teak that you are varnishing or oiling. I wash it with water, boat soap and a bit of cascade two or three times a year.

The conventional wisdom is that it can need to be replaced every twenty years (although some people go much longer). Our deck was just replaced by the prior owner.
 
#18 ·
The pilot berths are outboard of the settees amidship, in the saloon (main cabin). Quarter berths are aft of the galley and nav station, tucked under the cockpit. On my boat the quarter berth is open to the main cabin. On that Swan they are in a separate cabin aft. It looks like there is a pass-thru from the galley to the starboard Q-berth.

Most people feel that, being further aft, there is a little less motion under way in the quarter berth. My experience is that, being under the cockpit, it is a little more prone to noise overhead from the cockpit. Bunks forward of the mast are useless when underway.

On our boat, the little guy can lie in his pilot berth and read, and still take part in conversations. On the Swan, the aft cabin would provide more privacy. If your girls are young, this way the little ones get their own beds, plus they are still part of the evening. I like pilot berths.

On our boat, for coastal cruising we put up the lee cloth on the quarter berth, aft of the nav station, and use it as a catch all stowage area, since the Admiral and I sleep forward. When we go offshore, that gear gets stowed forward and we set up the quarter berth for sleeping.

Be forwarned, that Swan will be a lot "cozier" than a more modern boat the same length, but you don't really need that much room. And when the wind picks up and kicks a nasty chop, that will be a very easy boat to drive.

You need to go get on some boats and compare them. You also need to think very hard about how you will actually use a boat. If you are not going offshore, don't bother with an offshore boat, for the money they are smaller, and the interiors are not as well suited to entertaining (although the inside of that swan looks very yachty to me, and would be a nice place for a glass of wine). If you are going offshore, think seriously about robust sailhandling equipment, strong construction, and offshore sleeping arrangements. A tired crew makes mistakes, and that's dangerous offshore. If it is going to be you, the wife, and 3 little girls, be sure the boat is small enough for you and the wife (preferably you or the wife) to handle easily.

Good luck!
 
#19 ·
Sabre vs other boats mentioned

Sabres are meant to be sailed, designed by a world class designer (Jim Taylor) and built extremely well. The 42 is not that slow and rates 66-72 not 90. It also can be or was customized at the factory. A freind of mine had one built with 3 cabins, owners, kids, and nanny's. Comparable in price to a Tartan, the Sabre is considerably better built. All the angular exterior surfaces on the Sabre have beveled edges, not so the Tartan. Could be because Sabre owns premium mold maker North End Composites which also supplies Hinckley. Check the fit and finish closely. The Sabre construction method is to lay up the hull, fit all the interior carpentry, put deck on and score, take deck off, remove carpentry (furniture) take to varnish shop and put 6 coats on, reinstall furniture, and then reinstall the deck. Look closely at the hull of Sabre at the next boatshow and then compare it with the others. You will see the difference.

Granted, the Beneteaus, Catalinas, and Hunters can have more dockside amenities they are certainly built to a price. Sabres tend to be sweet sailing machines that are stiff with quality interiors and components. Tartans are priced similarly but have had recent service problems which have been detailed elsewhere and their design pedigree is not as strong since they got away from Sparkman Stephens as their designer.

My order of US production boatbuilders price/quality Sabre, Island Packet, Tartan, Catalina, Hunter.
 
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