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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11 Minutes Ago 06:01 PM
Brent Swain
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
Actually, Bob, by using a modern hybrid drive (electric motor, controller and generator) designers like yourself have an enormous amount of flexibility with these variables. Being able to stick the maintenance-free shoe-box sized motor down in the bilge with a straight run to the prop and the engine/generator where you can actually get at it (not just in line with the prop) makes life a heck of a lot easier than it used to be..
On my boats , if I could put the motor anywhere I wanted, the best place for it would still be where it is , under the front end of the cockpit.
58 Minutes Ago 05:14 PM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Seaner:
I don't recall that outburst. I can imagine myself saying it. It could have been the Tayana Bingham FANTASIA double ender. I would feel comfortable saying that about that boat. I just think it's an awful design,,,,by my criteria. Which I trust.

If someone out there owns one I'm really sorry I said that. But I feel obliged to be honest in the world of never ending BS.
1 Hour Ago 04:54 PM
seaner97
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Bob- somewhere in here you said you'd throw yourself across the dock to keep someone from buying a Ty37 (and some other boat I can't remember). Care to tell us why?
1 Hour Ago 04:35 PM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

You have two stubby little rudders not vertical with no chance of prop wash even if you do want it. It's not going to work very well at all.
2 Hours Ago 04:08 PM
Jeff_H
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Regarding bowthrusters I fully agree and I will add that the more efficient type of rudders used on modern beamy boats with large transoms (twin rudders) are a lot less effective on docking maneuvers than the classic single deep rudder and in this case it will be irrelevant to be a classic transmission or a sail drive one.
Very good point that had not occurred to me.

Jeff
4 Hours Ago 01:57 PM
PCP
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
...
But I am less comfortable with the idea that separating the prop from the rudder is a good thing in low speed maneuvers. It is still very helpful in turning the boat to be able to send a blast of propwash over the rudder and spin the stern. I have come think that the current trend towards installing bow thrusters on ever smaller boats, is in part a response to the wider spread use of saildrives, along with the philosophy of making things easy for someone who has not learned the techniques and who is not willing to expend the energy to do things the more traditional ways.

Jeff
Regarding bowthrusters I fully agree and I will add that the more efficient type of rudders used on modern beamy boats with large transoms (twin rudders) are a lot less effective on docking maneuvers than the classic single deep rudder and in this case it will be irrelevant to be a classic transmission or a sail drive one.
6 Hours Ago 11:13 AM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Classic:
I'd like that degree of flexibility. In the 70's we tried it with hydraulic drive. It was kinda sorta successful. But the hydraulics brought some problems with it. I had one of those boats myself. I could tell you a very funny story about that some day.

Len: No problem at all. I listen to you. I wish I had your job. If you could teach me the fine points. I have to go with what I know and what will serve my clients best. They will sail or motor away on my boat. I do this time after time. My clients depend on me to get it right. And I am very happy to say,,,,,I do manage to get it right. Maybe I'm just lucky. I'm very anxious to see how the new carbon cutters will behave under power. I hope to have cured the "misery of the aperture". That said, I'm fine with a slight amount of prop walk.
20 Hours Ago 09:25 PM
Capt Len
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Bob, sorry if I wasn't detailed enough in my calculations regarding placement of my galley sink relative to the precise length of my shaft and whether I offset it to allow for prop walk . My comments were meant to be chatty and pertaining to my vessel specifically ,which is as it is. I personally designed and built and modified the shape and size of my stuff .My comments were based on my personal take on what works for me and how little modifications affected operational handling of my vessel. This is not theorizing in the real world This IS the real world.
22 Hours Ago 08:04 PM
Classic30
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
The fact is that once you get done theorizing in the real world the choice of where the prop goes in relation to the rudder is pretty much laid out for you given the other design features aft and where the engine is located which is a function of interior layout. Talk without including all those variables is just talk.
Actually, Bob, by using a modern hybrid drive (electric motor, controller and generator) designers like yourself have an enormous amount of flexibility with these variables. Being able to stick the maintenance-free shoe-box sized motor down in the bilge with a straight run to the prop and the engine/generator where you can actually get at it (not just in line with the prop) makes life a heck of a lot easier than it used to be..
23 Hours Ago 06:20 PM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Len:
Everything is relative! Einstein taught us that. Weren't you listening?

How about some definitive numbers that can reduce the amount of guessing going on here and distill this discussion down to a level of good old objective science? You guys can spout your theories all day long with zero accountability, just friendly chat. That's fine. I have no problem with it. But what I think gets built and can cost more than $2,000,000. I can't guess. I have to measur, quantify and evaluate all the variables the best I can so I am not guessing. As you brought up, the prop is a huge variable as is the rudder, the skeg, the aperture, the hull and the keel. I will continue to go with what I know.

The fact is that once you get done theorizing in the real world the choice of where the prop goes in relation to the rudder is pretty much laid out for you given the other design features aft and where the engine is located which is a function of interior layout. Talk without including all those variables is just talk.
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