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  Topic Review (Newest First)
3 Hours Ago 04:31 PM
Jeff_H
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbrains View Post
Outbound, I think the difference is that with the prop in an aperture on a full keel (or with Bob's "chastity" design) you won't catch the line in the first place, as the keel will ride over the line.

I was on my buddies boat this summer when he caught a line with his fin keel/spade/feathering prop. It took us over an hour of diving to get it off - lucky for us it was summer and warmer.

Once you catch a line it wraps tight and is difficult to remove, regardless of prop/keel/shaft, etc.
All my life I have heard that full keels are better for avoiding catching lines. From a common sense standpoint that would seem like it should be true. But at the risk of jinxing myself, the only boat that I ever caught a trap warp on was my old Stadel Cutter 'Indian', with about as small an aperture and full a keel as I can imagine.
[IMG]Indian out of the water photo Indianoutofwatersmall.jpg[/IMG]

The only boat that I ever caught a line and jammed a rudder had a long CCA style keel with attached rudder. (slid along the bottom of the keel and right into the joint at the heel of the rudder)

Jeff
3 Hours Ago 04:13 PM
Lazerbrains
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Lazer:
I lived with a sail drive, vintage 1978, for 15 years and loved it. I never had an issue. I will use sail drives whenever I have that option.
It's not that I don't like them, I'm not sure I like the additional maintainance which requires regular haulout. That and they seem to corrode quite fast at my marina.
4 Hours Ago 04:07 PM
Lazerbrains
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Outbound, I think the difference is that with the prop in an aperture on a full keel (or with Bob's "chastity" design) you won't catch the line in the first place, as the keel will ride over the line.

I was on my buddies boat this summer when he caught a line with his fin keel/spade/feathering prop. It took us over an hour of diving to get it off - lucky for us it was summer and warmer.

Once you catch a line it wraps tight and is difficult to remove, regardless of prop/keel/shaft, etc.
4 Hours Ago 03:38 PM
outbound
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Often wondered about this picking up lines thing.
Think you are more likely to pick up lines when the engine is running. Think depending on handedness of prop more likely on one side or the other. Think if you do pick up a line it's usually easier to clear off a shaft/ cutlass bearing/ spade set up. Think the worse set up to clear is full keel/attached rudder/ small aperture.
Have cruised Maine in various boats. Think while sailing it's no biggie to sail over pickups with fin keel/shaft/spade/ folding or feathering prop. Think this issue is raised by full keel owners without much justification that format is so much better in this regard as too justify its difficulties. Would note "full keel" encompasses a huge variety of very different boats. So please don't infer I don't like full keel boats but rather just that other types should not take this unfair hit.

Okay go at it boys.
5 Hours Ago 02:11 PM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Lazer:
I lived with a sail drive, vintage 1978, for 15 years and loved it. I never had an issue. I will use sail drives whenever I have that option.
6 Hours Ago 01:26 PM
Lazerbrains
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Here is a balanced, transom hung rudder.

Here are two of them!

I've been following your thread on these for awhile. I have to say this design really appeals to me in every aspect except the saildrive I see in this photo. But that's just because I am not a fan of them. Love the rudder design here and what it accomplishes.
6 Hours Ago 01:07 PM
Capt Len
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Thane's 'barn door' was balanced some 8 % forward of the pivot line. Read that some where and bought a 1/2 steel plate for $5 the appropriate size. This would have been transom hung onto a full keel but since the 'Spray lines were pulled back a couple of feet it ended up inboard and mounted to a Very Strong Bulkhead. Quadrant and cables all above the waterline Turning the rudder allowed the shaft to come thru hole cut in the plate after removing the prop. Was very pleased with the overall functioning .When I trimed a bit off the leading edge to allow for the Max prop was surprised how it changed the feel and control under power (-) Sailing over drifting gillnets or kelp was no problem .Try that with a spade
7 Hours Ago 01:01 PM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Out:
The air water thing is always a potential issue with an outboard rudder. But I had one on the PERRYWINKLE for fifteen years and I experienced zero problems. It's just not an issue at all with a nice big, well designed rudder. Nobody has ever called me and said, "My rudder is too big."
7 Hours Ago 12:54 PM
outbound
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Hence the small bit of backward cant on the top of the chastity strut. Genius.

Will say although I loved my T37 we once picked up fishing gear around the prop and shaft. That small aperture plus the sharp blades of the line cutter plus cold Maine waters plus the gear having wire,nylon and some kind of tenacious rope made it a horror show to clear. Didn't know about it until needing the engine to go into the harbor after coming up from Massachusetts. That made it more interesting as well. Moved the mess up to get to cut some it. Wire caught between rudder and hull. So no steering for awhile and we just drifted with crew taking turns working to clear the mess from the dinghy and briefly in the water.
Any design has pluses and minuses but really like the cf cutter. Only downside is what Jeff mentions upper air/water interface aeration.
8 Hours Ago 11:42 AM
bobperry
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Arc:
We have a beautiful, self aligning bearing at the bottom of the rudder. So we are set up for some load bearing. But given the construction of the rudder with a big CF beam running full length I don'lt think it will; see much load at all. That is Plan A. The rudder system was designed to make removal easy, relatively, at sea. A titanium rod goes through the top of the rudder. There is enough "play" in te lower bearing to allow the rudder to pivot aft and be easily removed. This was all worked out before hand with 3D modelling.
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