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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-22-2010 04:10 PM
zz4gta 4arch, any suggestions to getting more kids involved?
01-22-2010 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
Ok, so how does a 10 year old get started in racing lasers. Break it down for me. $500 is a ton of money if you don't have it.
I don't disagree with you at all there. When you don't have disposable income participating in sports that have high equipment costs and low public/corporate subsidy just isn't going to be a reality for you. But it's not just the poor who are staying away from racing, it's almost everybody and it can't be money that's keeping them all away. It's not at all uncommon to find middle class parents spending way more than $500/year on sports leagues, clinics, camps, classes, etc for their kids. And there are plenty of other expensive sports/hobbies that have more popularity and greater mind share among the middle class than sailboat racing (skiing & golf, just to name two). I think avoidance of youth sailing has as much or more to do with perception of elitism, perception of expense, parental safety concerns, parental fear of expending their kid's time on a hobby that has little to no value for getting college scholarships, and general fear of not following the crowd as it has to do with cost.
01-22-2010 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by AirOneNL View Post
From a European point of view I don't have the feeling that racing is in decline. ..... In France sailors are almost national heroes!
And French Ocean races are not French races anymore. They have sailors from all Europe and even some Americans. They put the emphasis on human exploit and seamanship and are mostly duo or solo races.

Here you have a link for the French Mag "Course au large" in the English version "Ocean Racing". This one is free. You have just to register.It has great photos.



01-22-2010 02:13 PM
zz4gta Ok, so how does a 10 year old get started in racing lasers. Break it down for me. $500 is a ton of money if you don't have it.
01-22-2010 01:54 PM
4arch Parents don't have to buy their kids a boat to get them into sailing and if they did want to buy a boat it's not too hard to find dinks under $500. If you live in an area where sailing's at all popular there are always sailing camps and classes for kids that don't cost any more than any other camps and classes kids take. I learned to sail and race on old beat up lasers and 420's then moved on to old beat up sonars and J22's before graduating to big boat sailing/racing.
01-22-2010 01:28 PM
zz4gta Sailing can't be compared to any other sport just b/c of the cost alone. Only other thing that I've found that costs about the same is racing cars. It's way too expensive for kids to aford and parents can't justify it when they compare it to other sports. Soccer = shoes, shin guards, uniform. Sailing = BOAT, foulies, PFD. And they get farther separated from there.

To keep costs down try using dacron sails and only let them buy new sails every 2-3 years. No spinnakers (although I'm against this, downwind jib and main is painfully slow and boring) this eliminates replacing a broken pole, one or more crew members, and at least one sail.

No one says the RC can't be picked for every single race before the season starts. Rotate racers out as RC. The volunteer system sucks donkey d!ck and you end up w/ the same 4 boats doing it every year. Nothing says you even need a boat, put the RC in someone's dingy w/ a cooler and a stop watch. Make the marks out of old milk jugs w/ a line tied to a big fishing weight.

Have a 3 day event where no boat is allowed a diver and cannot come out of the water unless something is broken.

Smaller boats w/ less crew make it easier to get boats on the water. Also makes it easier to do away regattas. Big boats require big, strong crew, who eat a lot and drink a lot at the bar, they also want a hotel room instead of crashing on the boat.

Just a couple of random thoughts. BTW that video is amazing, it's too bad I can't understand a word of it.
01-22-2010 01:06 PM
4arch Most of us start out racing as crew and at that point our cash outlay is minimal to zero so I don't buy the argument that the "arms race" mentality is keeping people from getting interested in the sport (though I do agree it's a strong factor in keeping people from fielding new racing boats). At this point a lot of boats are short crew so the problem is not that we're attracting too few skippers but that we're attracting too few crew and that is causing a lot of existing skippers to abandon or scale back their racing campaigns.
01-22-2010 10:50 AM
hellosailor "Maybe classes that limit the racing improvement on a boat "
They ALL pretty much do, in one way or another. USYRU had that debate for many years and dumbed down their name to USSA because they felt "yachting" was too elitist and discouraged people from the sport. Kinda like requiring torn jeans on casual Friday, if you ask me.

You know the reason that hulls are smooth, not textured? Because texturing the surface (like sharksin, or golf ball dimples, or the new Speedo olympic racing bathing suits) gives a significant speed increase--but it can cost gobs of money to figure out the best way to do it. So it was expressly banned.

One design racing? Again, caps what you can do to what the factory did, so the only real way you can spend money is buying new sails. For a while the J/35 class became known as the "sail of the month" club when some folks figured out the new sails worked best when new...

Bottom line is just that no matter where or how you place the limits, sailing is a sport and a hobby and that by definition doesn't happen unless you are RICH enough to have disposable income. Even if that just means $100 for a used Sunfish, that's disposable income and that makes you RICH in the eyes of the guy who doesn't have that much to begin with.
01-22-2010 08:59 AM
Where's the Connection??

Why is it assumed that have more and better sailing events on television will automatically translate into more people buying sailboats and going racing?
This is a thread that regularly pops up her and on SA (and probably on other sailing forums too); it's a great topic to discuss, but is it based on fact? I have no idea.
But let's go back to the golden age when the sport wasn't in decline (can some one tell me when that was?). In any case there was no TV coverage and racing was no more a spectator sport then than it is now. So what happened?
IMHO one part is in the advance of technology and the costs associated with ‘keeping up’ and there's time and the lack of it. There are lots of other possible reasons but I'll stick to these.
When I started serious racing (Annapolis Wednesday night series) back in 1980 I had just boat a C&C 40 with that had been set up for racing. It was one of a large class of what were called ‘racer-cruisers’. At that time electronics were minimal – by today’s standards, the high-tech sail material and lines were not available and most of the specialized racing hardware had yet to be invented. What all that meant was that you could take almost a stock boat (usually it was called the tall rig or racing version) and take it out and race it and if you were good, place high or win without having to spend a fortune on sails and equipment.
Now I have to admit I won’t race if I can’t be competitive. What I mean is if I sail a good race I can place high or win. I wouldn’t want to race a boat that had no chance of winning no matter how well it was sailed. So for racing, For racing we’d strip the boat of cruising equipment , pump out a lot of the water from the tanks and off we’d go. Every so often, a couple of us would put on our tanks and clean the bottom. And so after a couple of years of practice and racing with my crew, Satisfaction began placing at the top of the fleet. As technology developed, we added new hardware and elec tronics but no bank-breakers. Then things changed with the advent of Kevlar sails. To be competitive they were a must and they were expensive and the early ones weren’t particularly durable so they had to be replaced every couple of years. This involved thousands of dollars and when the kids started college, I just couldn’t afford it. What I did was drop down to a less ’serious’ racing club and continued but as has been pointed out elsewhere, there’s always someone who will turn friendly ‘beer can’ racing into blood sport. But the problem remains -- to become and remain competitive is now a very expensive proposition and I haven’t even mentioned the expense of docking or mooring the boat and ordinary maintenance which can run thousands of dollars a year.. I believe that the high and continuing expenses have deterred many people from the sport.
Then there’s the time factor and I don’t mean just time spent racing and setting the boat up for racing. One reason that Satisfaction did so well is that we practiced evenings after work. It took a year before were started really functioning as a team. To do this we spent 6-10 hours a week beyond racing in practice – you should have seen our first attempt to deploy the LifeSling, it would have taken a prize on funniest home videos. But that was time away from everything else, family, kids and in today’s ultra-busy world a lot of people can’t make that commitment, especially if they don’t live close to their boats.
Then there’s another aspect of the problem. To race you need to have some sort of race committee. The race committee has to spend time setting up the race, meeting with skippers, overseeing the race (committee boat) and arbitrating any protests. And while there are probably more thankless jobs, I can’t think of them off-hand. I wonder how many races get called off and possibly programs abandoned because no one was willing to serve on a race committee.
Would more/better television coverage help any of this? I don’t see how. What we need to do is first get kids into sailing, there are lots of programs out there but IMHO the best way is to take them out on our boats and teach them. Some will love it and some will not. For those who do there needs to be some outlet where they can sail and necessarily racing sailing dinks (which is what I did). Problem with learning by racing at that age is that winning becomes more important than sailing and the ones who consistently lose will just drop out probably forever.
IMHO that if we get kids to love sailing, some of them will become racers. After that we need to do something so people can afford to race. Maybe classes that limit the racing improvement on a boat – but I don’t know. And there’s still the time problem – to many other things to do and the need for racing committees. But better media coverage ? With what’s going on may we should consider Court TV . Anyway all we’ll get out of TV is nautically-oriented coach potatoes.
We brought our kids up on our boat and now they have sailboats and sometimes we all cruise together in our own little flotilla. But the excitement of racing never appealed to them.
As for me and my wife, well we have a plan -- two-to three more years and we’re out of here. We bought a boat for coastal cruising and island hopping. She’s also capable of blue-water cruising but my wife isn’t up to crossing oceans, at least not yet. In any case we have the entire western hemisphere and the Caribbean to explore.
So since we bought Enchantress, I’ve pretty much given up racing. Instead my wife and I spend our time making Enchantress over into our perfect cruising boat and learning everything we can about how to handle her. But y’know there are still times when I miss the excitement of the race.
01-20-2010 10:55 AM
smackdaddy Well - if there was more of this out there in TV land, there would be much more interest in sailing. No doubt.
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