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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Production Boats and the Limits
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Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
1 Hour Ago 03:43 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
Nothing that some carefully placed baggiwrinkle wouldn't fix. Remember to slack the throats when W on W .Oops, maybe I'm thinking about a different kind of sailboat .
A by gone era for sure. Remember when dad used to take you to B & R for an ice cream cone?
1 Hour Ago 03:20 AM
Capt Len
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Nothing that some carefully placed baggiwrinkle wouldn't fix. Remember to slack the throats when W on W .Oops, maybe I'm thinking about a different kind of sailboat .
2 Hours Ago 03:11 AM
desert rat
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

John how can you criticize that beautifully orchestrated feat of salesmanship.
We are all now convinced that the only proper method of staying a mast is B&R.
I am no longer enamored of schooners and all; those thousands of lines running
every which way.

How is that for sarcasm

Fire away smack.
2 Hours Ago 02:40 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
LOL! I take a different view, actually... If I'm headed off to parts unknown, I want to have as many fenders, docklines, and a long powercord as I can manage because, well, You Never Know... :-)

I want to have sufficient fenders not only for my own boat, but extra for another in the event I'm forced into a situation where someone else might have to raft alongside...

There's always gonna be some place - Marina Hemingway in Havana during a norther is one that comes to mind - where you can't possibly have too many fenders... Or, extension cords, for that matter :-)

The upside is, the excellent Havana Club rum you can buy there is cheaper than most anything you could have filled your lazarette with from elsewhere...

:-)
Silly me, my cruizeheimers acting up. I forgot to get rid of my 1500' of anchor rode, 5 anchors, storm jib, trysail, down wind pole etc, etc, etc in lieu of a few "extra fenders" to protect me from some other lame ass sailors. Those dinghies they have hanging from those davits work real well as fenders....

What's extra power cords? You mean you have to plug in?

Smackys biggest challenge will be finding enough room for the mountain of food he will need to feed his erstwhile crew. Can't have enough lucky charms for kids these days.
3 Hours Ago 01:22 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
What was that whole comprehension thing you were talking about earlier?

Here's another description:

B&R 23 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Strength, stability, simplicity, decreased weight aloft, more sail area possible, better distribution of loads...

And another, more in-depth description...

The Insider's Guide to Choosing and Buying a Yacht

Try to pay really close attention to the few pages discussing the rig. Yes, there are limitations with the swept-back spreaders like you mention...but obviously not enough to dissuade virtually the entire industry from adopting them.

Do we need the crayons again?
Ahhh, I think I see the problem... You seem to be confusing, or equating, the B&R rig with any and every other rig that features deeply swept spreaders...

That rig on the Beneteau Oceanis, for instance, with its backstay, and absence of double diagonals, would seem to have few of the purported advantages of the B&R, while retaining all of the disadvantages of deeply swept spreaders...
4 Hours Ago 12:38 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
According to smack's video, sounds like they offer "A BETTER RIDE"...

I know, such technical nautical terminology might be confusing to some...

:-)
What was that whole comprehension thing you were talking about earlier?

Here's another description:


Quote:
The B&R 23 is equipped with the patented ‘B&R rig’.[1][2] The main characteristics of the rig include:

two rigid struts supporting the lower section of the mast
no backstays
30 degree swept spreaders
double diamond shrouding

Benefits of the B&R rig are:

decreased load of mast foot - load spread over three points, allows for smaller mast section, decreasing weight
increased strength of rig
the loading of the mast, shrouds and mast foot is decreased
allows for a large leach in mainsail
Strength, stability, simplicity, decreased weight aloft, more sail area possible, better distribution of loads...

And another, more in-depth description...

The Insider's Guide to Choosing and Buying a Yacht

Try to pay really close attention to the few pages discussing the rig. Yes, there are limitations with the swept-back spreaders like you mention...but obviously not enough to dissuade virtually the entire industry from adopting them.

Do we need the crayons again?
4 Hours Ago 12:24 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
So while we argue about the disadvantages of swept back spreaders....

What ARE the advantages?

Medsailor
According to smack's video, sounds like they offer "A BETTER RIDE"...

I know, such technical nautical terminology might be confusing to some...

:-)
5 Hours Ago 12:00 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
So while we argue about the disadvantages of swept back spreaders....

What ARE the advantages?

Medsailor

PS I am a neutral party here bevause my boat has one mast with regular spreaders and one with swept.
The advantages are simple...with such spreaders you can fit a spa on the boat.

Actually, here's one of the better explanations of the B&R rig I've seen:

5 Hours Ago 11:51 PM
MedSailor
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

So while we argue about the disadvantages of swept back spreaders....

What ARE the advantages?

Medsailor

PS I am a neutral party here bevause my boat has one mast with regular spreaders and one with swept.
5 Hours Ago 11:21 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Yeah, I guess it's just me...

And John Harries... And Colin Speedie... looks like Steve Benjamin, as well...

Oh, and a French guy named Jean-Francois Eeman, who just happens to be building one of the most awesome offshore/expedition-style yachts on the planet today, the Boreal 44:



so, I guess it's just us 5 dinosaurs, still awaiting the end-of-discussion rationale that settles once and for all the superiority of such deeply swept spreaders on a boat like that Beneteau, and why it's better not to be able to fully ease the boom when the situation might warrant... :-)



Sorry, but such a comparison between a fully-crewed Volvo Race boat - which has ability to sail so fast as to pull the apparent wind angle far forward even when sailing the deepest of angles - and the type of displacement boats the vast majority of cruising sailors sail shorthanded, is simply laughable...

You really suppose the Caribbean 1500 rally tracker is gonna look anything remotely like this?

:-)

Well, I guess comparing the VO boats to production cruisers is a bit of a stretch. About the same as comparing an "offshore/expedition-style yacht" to a production cruiser. So we're all guilty, right?

I think the advantages were discussed above. If you don't buy it - that's okay. A lot of others do.

BTW - your MC article has this photo:



It's a dual headsail config. Do they even have the main out on this one? Swept-back spreaders wouldn't be an issue here, right? And you probably want to have a word with Harries about that fender stowage I would imagine.
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