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R.C.M.P. boardings in British Columbia

9K views 61 replies 28 participants last post by  AKscooter 
#1 ·
In the last few years, the RCMP in B.C. have started an aggressive policy of boardings and safety inspections. I have seen them go after every boat in sight. They can and will board your boat when your under way. Not always but someone gave them the legal right to do so. I have been approached twice in the last few years. Once at anchor and once underway (two weeks ago). Underway, they did not ask to board.. although they could have. It was a straightforward safety inspection and the guys were great. Friendly and obviously enjoying the day out on the water. My boat is always 100% in compliance with everything....
At anchor, they wanted to come aboard but I refused permission. Legally they need a search warrant as you are in your residence and when at a dock or anchor/mooring buoy... they have no right or permission to board your boat. The Mountie did not like being told he couldn't come aboard but a man's home is his castle and our charter of rights still has some effect.
The officer did, however, ask me if I was doing anything illegal "down there".
I didn't bother to reply. If I thought, for one second, that my charter of rights was being violated by this police officer, I would seek civil damages from that officer and go after his pension, house and bank account. It seems harsh but after 30 years of living aboard, I take my home privacy quite seriously. How would you feel in your house if the police could come into it anytime they wished. Not a good feeling.

I was told by one of the officers that in the past there was a "soft" enforcement in effect but now, if they find two items out of date or missing, you can expect some hefty fines. In the hundreds of dollars....

I feel this is waayyyyy too much policing. For whatever reason, we have to do what is being done south of the border but I certainly didn't expect Canada to turn into this type of police state. I believe the RCMP could be doing something far more useful than safety inspections at sea. As an ex cop, I hate to see aggressive, in your face tactics that are becoming the norm nowadays. I stopped going to the U.S. by sailboat years ago due to the relentless boardings. Now, the plague has come to Canada. Too bad.. George Orwell was right all along... Just a thought..
 
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#4 ·
I have no problem with being boarded for a safety check. In fact I have even volunteered my Bertram so that a new OPP officer could be shown how it's done. But that said, a 20' Bertram is not a home.

On the enforcement side, it's a cash grab. On Georgian Bay, they guarantee you'll pay any fines by setting court dates for the middle of January in Parry Sound for those foolish enough to contest the ticket. And if it was alcohol related they (OPP) take your drivers license on the spot.
 
#6 ·
Everyone knows the RCMP doing the boat inspections ride seahorses... :)
The horses those mounties ride must be in really good shape from all that swimming....

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
#7 ·
Throughout each summer, my boat is my home, and it doesn't bother me if the coasties want to do a safety check or look through it. They're polite, the amount of time taken is nominal, they don't do it often, and I never have contraband in it, but if they find contraband on someone else's boat, it's OK with me if they find it. I'm not looking for a reason to sue anyone or to take their home and pension. The intrusion might seem a big deal to some people, but not to me. A week ago, I was stopped in a DUI roadblock while driving my car. The stop was brief, the officer was pleasant, I wasn't tested, even though I had alcohol on my breath because of a drink with dinner. Maybe some drunk was prevented from hurting others that night. I hope so. It's all in how you look at it.
 
#8 ·
We were stopped by an marine RCMP officer in a RIB a couple of summers ago - he was mainly doing a PFD check... This was probably the only time in over 20 yrs we were out of compliance - we had some unexpected guests for a daysail who had not brought their own PFDs as we requested, and so we were a couple short. I rather sheepishly explained the situation and was fortunately let off with a warning.

We immediately purchased a couple of guest PFDs to have on board at all times. I have no problem with these types of checks - it seems to me that only those with something to hide would have a problem.

And in the past 28 years on this coast that was the first and only time we'd been checked by anyone (police or coasties) while sailing.
 
#10 ·
I guess everything is relative... I always find Canadian law enforcement a polite, refreshing breath of fresh air after (or before) dealing with US Customs and Border Protection. It's like a whole other world up there. I'd tell you to be grateful but if all that paranoid, wannabe tough-guy stuff is drifting north and infecting the RCMP and CBSA, I can only apologize and sympathize.

The silly thing is that all the attitude and aggression not only annoys people, but also makes a mockery of the actual security at the border. We got our usual chilly reception coming back from Canada last summer through the San Juans and when it was done, all I could think was, "What do you have to act so tough about? You couldn't even find the case of whisky in the quarter-berth!" It's more sad than intimidating... a lot of puffery from a few people who are pretty incompetent. I think it probably encourages, rather than deters, our real enemies, and just ticks off our friends and fellow citizens.
 
#12 ·
I guess everything is relative... I always find Canadian law enforcement a polite, refreshing breath of fresh air after (or before) dealing with US Customs and Border Protection. It's like a whole other world up there.
To be honest my experience has been, uniformly, the other way around. US customs seems to have a bad rep as far as I can tell. That said, on my last marine crossing into the US, when I checked in, the border guards -- very politely -- refused to send somebody to the dock for an inspection, and then, the next morning, sent two very polite guards to issue me a warning for not checking in right away. So yeah, my confidence in them is not particularly steely either.
 
#11 ·
It seems reasonable to me to check for contraband and intoxication, since they fall under the police's proper responsibility to protect other people from you. But fines for safety noncompliance, beyond being an obvious cash grab, are the epitome of an invasion in privacy. I'm a little bit surprised that so many Canadian boaters don't see anything wrong with these boardings.

The fact that the police are very polite isn't relevant; politeness is the least you ought to expect from people whose function is to use violence against you to get what they want.

If people don't actively protect their own privacy rights, those rights will be taken away, and they won't even notice. At first.
 
#14 ·
It seems reasonable to me to check for contraband and intoxication, since they fall under the police's proper responsibility to protect other people from you. But fines for safety noncompliance, beyond being an obvious cash grab, are the epitome of an invasion in privacy. I'm a little bit surprised that so many Canadian boaters don't see anything wrong with these boardings.
Adam

The RCMP do have this responsibility.

From the Safe Boating Guide:

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police
(RCMP), provincial and municipal
police forces and other authorized local
authorities enforce the laws that apply
to boats. They may inspect your boat
and monitor your boating activities to
make sure that requirements are being
met. This may include checking for
safety equipment, your Pleasure Craft
Operator Card and careless operation
on the water.
Two guys just drowned this weekend in AB. No pfds.

I have been sailing on the BC coast for 25 years. I have never been boarded.

Jack
 
#13 ·
SM

Unfortunately, your observations are all too correct!!!

I once told a TSA airport guy he couldn't find dog dung if he stepped in it!Somehow, I got away with it.

...a lot of puffery from a few people who are pretty incompetent. Give some folks a gun and/or a badge and they go nuts!!!
 
#15 ·
Because I have a bit of a hooligan look on me, I've been pulled over on the water three times, always in my Zodiac, never on the sailboat. I'm so in compliance that they start rolling their eyes when I produce the heaving line and the signalling mirror, never mind the hand flares.

I've found Canadian cops on the water pretty polite and non-intrusive. I've found U.S. customs officials less so. Frankly, a lot of them seem like armed mall cops and about as bright. By contrast, I've found New York City beat cops helpful and polite, as well as some cops in Florida, where they don't have the best reputation.

To be fair, however, I prefer dealing with American customer service people on the phone for the many things I seem to buy in the nautical line. They generally seem more engaged and better trained than Canadian places, where you can get dopey, if not actually rude, service on the phone. In a time where the customer can use the Internet to quickly source deals, this is short-sighted.
 
#16 ·
Way to go

Count me in Johnvye's camp. If you are under way, then they have the right to request to board and inspect. However, if you are at anchor, and they ask to go on a fishing expedition, then you have every right to refuse.

"Pardon me, but are you willing to waive your protection from unreasonable search and seisure, so that I can look around, and possibly fine you or impound your vessel. It won't take long, and if we find something, we could really use the money. Think of this as a service." :puke

I applaud johnvye for knowing and standing up for your rights!:cool: :cool:
 
#17 ·
Rights of Border Officers?

Once when returning to the US from Canada (my boat is a Canadian registered boat moored in the US - Point Roberts, where 95% of the marina is filled with Canadian boats), after we cleared Customs via the phone using Nexus, we were waved into the Custom's dock by an irrate official as we were passing by. We did exactly as we were instructed by the Officer on the phone, which was to write the last 5 digits of the clearance number on a large piece of paper, and displayed this on the way by the dock.
The official on the dock (after we docked), then told us they were boarding our boat, and we were not allowed on board during this "inspection". I did not feel comfortable with this (not being allowed on my own boat to watch his inspection). Does anyone know my legal rights under these conditions? I know they have the right to board and conduct an inspection, but do I have the right to witness this inspection (or not)?
As it turned out everything was fine, and I was told by a different officer that I had done everything right, so not to worry.
Thanks,
Tom
 
#18 · (Edited)
I feel this is waayyyyy too much policing. For whatever reason, we have to do what is being done south of the border but I certainly didn't expect Canada to turn into this type of police state. I believe the RCMP could be doing something far more useful than safety inspections at sea. As an ex cop, I hate to see aggressive, in your face tactics that are becoming the norm nowadays. I stopped going to the U.S. by sailboat years ago due to the relentless boardings. Now, the plague has come to Canada. Too bad.. George Orwell was right all along... Just a thought..
For the longest time when returning to Canada from Point Roberts I never had to produce any documents (passport/Nexus) to return home they simply asked a few questions and I was on my way. Then they started asking for a passport so after a few times I asked why, since it was not a historical practice. The officer explained that he'd be remiss not to admit that American policy was the influence, apparently Canadian customs has been heavily influenced by American policies and are expected to appease the American Gov't through compliance of their expectations.
As for the puffery displayed by American customs officers, it goes with the job, they are all like that and your best defence is to simply mollify them best you can or suffer the consequences. Yes they can get heavy handed and any belligerance will ony antagonize them further so just play along and make them feel good or they will threaten to confiscate your Nexus card. I get it from them all the time.
 
#19 ·
The fact that the police are very polite isn't relevant; politeness is the least you ought to expect from people whose function is to use violence against you to get what they want.
It's probably more accurate to say "willing to use violence to overcome resistance to a lawful process." It generally takes two to fight.

As for the puffery displayed by American customs officers, it goes with the job, they are all like that
really?
 
#21 ·
It's probably more accurate to say "willing to use violence to overcome resistance to a lawful process." It generally takes two to fight.
If the police were magical angelic robots programmed to only ever act to protect somebody's natural rights, I might agree with you. However, just because a process is lawful (I don't think anybody in this thread has stated that the RCMP is breaking the law by boarding our vessels) doesn't make it right.
 
#20 ·
It takes two to fight, but I would not blame anyone for resisting legal process. Nothing illegal about displaying resistance... most of the time.

Moreso, it is their function to use violence to get what they want. I for one, do not respect it. For instance, the Seattle police recently beat a 14 year old girl, and sent an innocent man into a permanent coma in 2 seperate incidents.

This is what makes the news!

Yes, one can reasonably say that they are all like that. I hate customs officers, they are stupid and self assured ass hats.
 
#25 ·
Yes, one can reasonably say that they are all like that. I hate customs officers, they are stupid and self assured ass hats.
I have do not yet met these ones. They have been courteous and professional, even the one insisted that I leave my nice Washington potatoes on the dock at Bedwell.

Jack
 
#23 ·
The water police in the town I live in (but not where I keep my boat) are pretty much the joke of the marina. It is all political assignment and the guys are all cops of some sort but have no clue about boating what so ever. They constantly wake and swamp other boats in the 5mph channel including the town sailboat while there are students on board learning about boating safety....

Also we have seen them up on the local harbor sandbar more times than we can count (and these are supposed to be the local experts and also the channel is very well marked)

My friend keeps a very nice MainShip 30' Trawler (roughly $120k) in one of the slips at the marina but unfortunately it is docked next to the town patrol boats and every single time they back them out of the slip they slam into his starboard hull and then put it in forward and go on their way. His hull has huge marks all over it from this.

So unless it is the Coast Guard or trained professionals I have no respect what so ever for the local water police. I could be inebriated drunk and still be more competent and safe on the water than these clowns
 
#24 ·
Yes, one can reasonably say that they are all like that. I hate customs officers, they are stupid and self assured ass hats.
Can you enlighten as to how all black people are too, or maybe how all Muslims are? Are there any other groups you hate? You're saying a lot more about yourself with these comments than you are about the folks you slander.
 
#28 ·
It has been interesting reading your responses to my original post. As someone who spent many years working in law enforcement, I am seeing tactics in Canada switch from a relatively polite British style of law enforcement to an aggressive American Style. I know we are lucky to have highly educated candidates still applying for jobs as officers but I wouldn't want to be in the field nowadays.
When I am cruising, this is my home. When I am at anchor, I want my home to be as private as my condo. This is still a free country... or at least it was. Oh, by the way, these safety inspections include questions like...what do you do for a living?....where are you going?......what are you doing down there that is illegal ? and other safety issues along the same lines.
These aren't safety inspections as much as tossing the whole coast and seeing what floats to the surface. I don't see how hundreds of armed high speed inflatables roaring around all our waterways will stop a determined terrorist. All a terrorist would have to do is use a Bayliner 60, I have yet to see a Mountie board a large (read wealthy) power boat. I am sure they do, but I haven't seen or heard of it yet.
Question authority.... Protect the few rights we have left....Challenge aggressive law enforcement (carefully) wherever you find it. If a police officer violates my charter of rights, I will pursue this through the courts.
I am a fan of the RCMP, they didn't decide to start doing this. Someone from the U.S. has convinced Canada to co-ordinate law enforcment tactics on both sides of the border. This is now what we have... a U.S. led initiative to make us like them. Overkill..... just my opinion....it really doesn't mean much.. John
 
#29 ·
I know we are lucky to have highly educated candidates still applying for jobs as officers but I wouldn't want to be in the field nowadays.
I don't know about BC but here in Toronto, you don't stand a chance in hell of getting on the police force with only high school unless you know someone really high up. All of the cops in the last 15 years are at minimum college educated ( although college isn't what it was back in "my" day 20 years ago) and a large portion have a university degree in something other than policing such as psychology, sociology, law or IT. Outside of Toronto, the same standards apply to the OPP but I am not so sure about Peel Regional. We all thought that Peel got the Toronto rejects and because of that, they were always extra bitter doing stops for speeding.

I have noticed in the last 2 months a huge presence of Metro Toronto Police in Toronto Harbour. I know that they have been doing alot of work due to the 2 missing kids, both of which ended up being pulled from the water. Most of the time, they are nosing into the seawall to get coffee and then just puttering around.
 
#30 ·
My experience with law enforcement and others has been that your attitude determines the treatment you receive in return. If you're respectful and cooperative, you'll usually be treated with respect. If you are uncooperative and let them know what you think of them, and argue about their right to do whatever they're doing, they'll be curt and more insistent. If you use force to resist them, they'll swarm you, wrestle you to the ground and handcuff you behind the back, and take you to jail.

It's about the same with any service personnel. If you go into a McDonald's and are nice to the clerk, you'll get your burger and fries. If you're not nice, you'll get your burger and fries and a dollop of phlegm. It's almost always best to be nice to service personnel.
 
#32 ·
It's about the same with any service personnel. If you go into a McDonald's and are nice to the clerk, you'll get your burger and fries. If you're not nice, you'll get your burger and fries and a dollop of phlegm. It's almost always best to be nice to service personnel.
A better analogy is the suggestion (actually made to me by a friend in the service industry) that you ought to tip well at a restaurant, even if you get bad service, because if you go back, you might just get served a dollop of phlegm, or worse. Basically, the principle that it's okay for us to be held hostage by the service industry, or by the cops, or whoever.

If I thought that the cooks at a restaurant would defile my food because I didn't tip well last time, I wouldn't go back to that restaurant.

You're basically suggesting that even if the cops violate our rights, we should still be polite to them, because if we escalate the situation, they will follow suit.
 
#34 ·
You're basically suggesting that even if the cops violate our rights, we should still be polite to them, because if we escalate the situation, they will follow suit.
I think you distorted what sailorman6 said by mixing in what your service industry buddy said.
 
#35 ·
I did a quick google search of Canadian authority to conduct vessel inspections and got several hits for commercial craft and fishing vessels, but didn't find anything definitive yet on their authority to board anchored pleasure vessels.

Does anyone know for sure, one way or the other?
 
#36 ·
I did a quick google search of Canadian authority to conduct vessel inspections and got several hits for commercial craft and fishing vessels, but didn't find anything definitive yet on their authority to board anchored pleasure vessels.

Does anyone know for sure, one way or the other?
You will need a Canadian Admirality Lawyer to explain that one. But then you could ask the RCMP about it also... Officers do need to understand the basis of their authority in order for them to do their jobs.
One of your questions could be: Could you please explain where I could find in the law books your authority to board yachts?
 
#37 ·
Being boarded under way by any bureaucratic organization can be frustrating at best. Add to that, an over zealous, discourteous offical can be a more than infuriating experience. Especially to those that spend time and money to comply with all the rules/regs. of local, state and federal mandates...which can be conflicting and confusing. After my last 18 years of EVERYDAY :( dealing with airport security and since the TSA was formed, I FEEL your pain.

That said, I think we all have to consider another aspect in all this. That would be location. In my fishing days, I loved fishing at Port Canaveral and would frequently be boarded for safety equipment inspections (though I suspect it was just to see what we had on board). Never had a problem with that, was always treated with respect and I responded with nothing but cooperation and courtesy. All the guns may have had something to do with that! :)

In ports/areas like Canaveral, the level of security is mandated by the presence of a few military tracting ships, nuclear submarines, NASA recovery ships, major cargo shipping and the all present pax liners with BIG freakin' EARS on 'em! As I expected, I was often boarded because of the area I was fishing in. Necessary evil...I think.

If you're cruising/day sailing/fishing in an area of 'high profile', I would expect a few boardings/inspections and try to make a 'hard' situation as palatable as possible for all concerned. Man, how times have changed.
 
#38 ·
Twenty five years ago, I was in Friday Harbour and watched several Coast Guard vessels check virtually every vessel that left the harbour one day. I was shocked, quite frankly. I feel one should be able to spend a day with friends, out on the water, without having armed intervention. I have been boarded by the U.S. Coast guard several times and finally just stopped heading south.
Now, my own country has adopted a similar policy. I understand that our government doesn't HAVE to comply with a request from the U.S. government to synchronize law enforce techniques, but apparently we have.
Do I believe there was pressure from Washington to do so....yes.
Last week, we learned on the news that U.S. law enforcement officials will be riding on Canadian vessels and our Mounties with be hanging out with the U.S.Coast Guard during enforcement exercises. If someone can explain to me why this is necessary, I would like to hear it.
I have heard, but not seen, that there are high speed inflatables that cruise the San Juan Islands with 50cal machine guns mounted on the bow.
Way too much policing. ps: I am enjoying reading this thread though.
It has been a subject I have been dying to discuss with my fellow boaters.
My apologies to anyone who has been offended. I fly to the U.S. regularly and love your country. I do, however, prefer a British style of law enforcement...so far, we are still allowed to question authority.
 
#42 ·
The US and Canada are friends. I am not sure I know of any country in the world that has as close a friendship as Canada and the US... with the UK a very close second if not equally as friendly. We do have common enemies. I certainly HOPE that they are "hanging out together" and working together. THe opposite of that would be frightening.

I have total respect for the US Coast Guard. They are some of the best men and women in the world, period (and yes, I am prejudice). Whenever a person gets himself in trouble, they are the ones that risk their lives (and quite often lose it) trying to rescue them. They have every right to board boats, and I am glad they do. The men and women I have dealt with have done so with honor and integrity and in a very professional manner. Perhaps this is due to the fact that I welcome them on board, offer them a coke or water, and thank them for their service and everything they have done for our country???

I have nothing to hide. You have nothing to hide (I assume). Let them on!! THank them. SHake their hand. Give them a coke or a water and invite them back anytime. I will say though... that this type of persona will make it such that they never come back again - which is our loss.

Regarding the 50 cal machine guns... what would you have them carry to protect themselves and the citizens they are entrusted to watch over? Harsh language? They are there to protect you - often from yourself.

I will tell you one thing: I am glad to have Canada to our north. I hope you are equally glad to have us to the south? We are like brothers that do not always agree, but we are still family. Comments that seperate us and draw lines of distinction do little to promote and foster that relationship. I hate the fact that passports are now required to cross between our country(s). I have often wondered if we could have worked out our differences and worked closer together in similar philosophies or border control and immigration, if that would not have come to reality? WIth that in mind, I do not mind a closer working relation ship between our two countries in every manner... especially the Coast Guards and Border Patrols. Maybe the day will come to pass when our kids can walk across imaginary lines without having to present detailed and documented proof of who we are. Right now that is a distant memory reserved to those who walked those lines before 2009.

My opinions...

- CD
 
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