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Liveaboard Family Looking for a Miracle

62K views 274 replies 56 participants last post by  elspru 
#1 ·
I am wondering whether there is someone out there near MD with a boat that is going to waste due to, perhaps, just a busy lifestyle. Maybe that person could afford to pay it forward, so to speak, to a family in need. My husband, toddlers and i live aboard a 27 foot boat. It is very old, but we love it more than any life on land. It is a long story as to how we arrived here, but we are grateful to have a roof over our heads and our family intact. We can no longer use our credit, as we lost everything during bad times. The important thing is that we are together and happy, yet the harsh reality remains that our old boat is just that. Our transom is rotting and our core is definitely wet with all of our leaks. We can no longer move the boat because it puts too much stress on the transom, causing water to come in rapidly. If we could get any type of loan we would be fine, but as i said, we no longer have that luxury. We cannot even get a loan to replace our dilapidated vehicles which are on their last legs. Call me crazy or what you will for this post, but I am just a mother and wife trying to save her family. My husband works hard to take care of us, but as many of you may know, when you sink down into a hole financially, it can be nearly impossible to get back out again. If our home ends up at the bottom of the drink, we will truly have nothing left. If you can be of any help at all, it would be appreciated more than you will ever know. Thanks for reading this post. I can only hope for a miracle.
 
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#120 ·
you give a boat away because that is exactly what it is worth. This ain't brain surgury.

The 'free' boat the OP originally got is now costing big time. So was it 'free'? The boat is sinking, how much is that worth?

You get what you F@ckin PAY for. One can easily get a boat for free, put $20,000 into it to make it good and then have a boat that is worth $10,000. You just paid $20,000 for a $10,000 boat! You get what you pay for...or less.
Boats can be very expensive to maintain, especially ones that have been neglected.

The stupidity around here is sometimes mind boggling

Thanks for the entertainment

And yes dog is right, the original poster is obviously a scammer for all the reasons dog cited. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it IS a f@ckin duck
 
#122 ·
Y'all have to excuse my buddy xort. You see, he sails on Lake St. Stupid, and that's enough to make any sailor a bit... twitchy. But, beyond that, he's spent a good deal of time and money buying a decent boat and making her better. The idea of somebody asking to be given a boat and then expecting to live on it for... well, next-to-free (which rather implies doing the minimum necessary to keep the water out), probably offends his sensibilities.

Now The Admiral and I haven't spent the money I suspect xort and his Admiral have. And I know he's put more work into their boat than I have ours. But still: I can empathize with his outrage.

Some of us love boats. To some of us, boats aren't Kleenex, to be cavalierly used until they're not fit for anything anymore, and then discarded. To some of us, a boat neglected is a painful sight.

Jim
 
#123 · (Edited)
Wasn't trying to pi$$ anyone off here... I am currently saving my way into a mid eighties Bayfield 29. I just thought that a structurally sound boat that someone was looking to give away, I could put a lot of work into it myself and professionally as needed for $15,000 - $20,000 and still save myself $5,000 to $10,000. I could single hand for a year or two on that money.

My step father is a carpenter, I have one grandfather who is a mechanic that specializes in diesel engines and another grandfather with a machine & fabrication shop (he is a master with a welder).

This thread just peaked my curiosity on the whole abandoning issue. If someone doesn't want something that has a solid hull but needs work I thought it would be great to spend time rebuilding what has to be done, engine, rigging, interior spending time with family I don't normally see and taking them out for some sailing once the hard work is done. I wasn't saying I needed a free boat or stating a sob story.

I have been looking for a few months around me and have narrowed my choice down to the Bayfield 29, there are a few to be had but they are far from fixer uppers. BUT during all my searching I have not some across anyone at local marinas talking about abandon boats. Maybe it is just different in Canada, the sailing season is small and most boats get hauled out for the winter.

Again, sorry for rubbing anyone the wrong way.
 
#125 ·
Sailindog's statement back in post 109 struck a cord with me. If she had truly received a derelict boat as a gift why is the first post about asking for a replacement. The OP certainly exhibits the skills associated with a seasoned user of the internet and forums. I would of thought that when she first moved on to the boat that a long string of what is this for and how do we pump the head or how to keep the childern safe posts would of materlized. I am sure most of us do the same thing now when we acquire a new possison of any intricacy, we run to the internet and find the best support group for that item to learn the finer points of the item.

What I see as the real harm is that the OP did not provide enought information to support her case. By not being forth coming with informaion she sparked debates between many good samaratinas who would of gladly helped if they were confident that she was in need. Each and everyone of us has a set point where our BS alarm goes off, it is lower for some than others. Many who have the low BS set point may be the ones who will help the most you just have to be sure not to trip the alarm.
 
#128 · (Edited)
If you think I got it right Smacky...I must have gotten it wrong.
I was expressing my thoughts late in the game. My suspicions would have been raised from the start as well. That doesn't mean "don't help...this is a scammer"...just means this doesn't smell right...more info needed. And that's all anyone wanted. There was NO smackdown and you go trolling for a fight as usual and even post about it over on AS to draw others in.
We know the game...it's the only one you play.

Oh yeah...and WE is just about anyone who has followed your antics over the last year.
 
#130 ·
I guess it was the, "best of luck to you and your family" that smacked of vitriol and sarcasm to you, Smacky.

As expressed above, there was no smackdown, either given or necessary, until your useless, tired, and tedious morality show on estrogen showed up.

Even your lidless eyes will have noticed that one of the moderators posted after the post of mine that you take such great offense to, apparently finding nothing within it to object to, and by the way.....I do seem to remember your little knickers getting all in a twist over inter-site conflicts in the past, so what's all this crap with you taking your dented and tarnished shield over to A-S to drum up more controversy? I guess we can add hypocrite to all your other less than noble titles here.

We can make the assumption without harm that Tiara's Wake made an honest, if perhaps misguided, request for a free boat on the forum most likely for her request to be answered. I, and probably "we", can make no similar judgments about your usual brand of postings seen herein. It's beyond my memory to recall a bigger horse's ass whom was not already walking around with two black eyes, than yourself as expressed in these forums.

Here's a suggestion for you, if you've got the balls for it. Go over to Off Topic and open a poll question thread. Title it, "Smacky is a Horse's Ass" or "Smacky in Nothing but a Troll" and limit the answers to a simple, "yes" or "no". That will explain to you who "we" comprises, albeit anonymously. Don't make it some long drawn out explanation of your jousts here; just a simple question with only two answers. Come on, Troll, show some balls.
 
#131 · (Edited)
I've got no problem with inter-site banter about what's going on in one forum or the other as long as the people involved can see what's being said. I was having a conversation at A-S with another member of both sites here and there - moving back and forth between both sites. And most of the people involved here are over there. So I can't quite see the problem with this that you seem to.

As a matter of fact, I think it actually might have been my comment there that helped Chuckles put two and two together with his kind offer above. Serendipity baby!

Anyway, every general member and visitor here or there is welcome to go over the ASOT and see exactly what I said for themselves.

Now about that poll....
 
#132 ·
You prove yourself to be just the sleazy type I've branded you. You didn't have the balls to ask the question outright. Get rid of the "lovable" part and ask it straight up or be branded ball-less, you troll. Scared aren't you?
 
#137 ·
Especially when he has to navigate via looking out his stomach window. :)
 
#139 ·
yes, there are good vessels for $1.

As a former Dockmaster at high end marinas in the northeast, here's my experience on free vessels and a few thoughts about the OP of this thread.

Yes, I thought perhaps OP may be a scam. There was a scammer scent about it. But unsure, I responded anyway because there are good, free boats out there. If the poster was for real, she decided she had nothing to lose asking for help. Maybe she could have gotten help fixing what she had, maybe not, but that wasn't what she was asking for. Some posters brought that up and if she or any 'real' readers with the same needs read it, they got some insight on how to repair what she had.

More sailboats are donated than powerboats. Some are in great working order, sometimes not. Many of the ones in poor condition are donated to marine foundation- though the foundations are pretty fussy about which poor condition vessels they'll take. They rehab them as a teaching tool and then sell them (usually way under market to move them quickly) to raise money or keep them in their fleet. So they often want specific makes.
The ones that are outright gifted to individuals usually go by word of mouth or sometimes found under free on Craigslist.
You don't need a sad story to ask for a gifted vessel. You don't need any story at all. You just need desire, persistance and humility. Maybe you'll be successful, maybe you won't.

There are some great boats out there for free or for donation. Best time to get them is at the end of the summer season. You have to get out to the boat yards, marinas, boater's pubs, marine foundations, riggers, dock hands, surveyors, sailing clubs, yacht clubs and talk to people. Most are friendly, helpful folk. If they're not, NEXT. I recommend sticking to your local area, if at all possible. If not, go where there is the biggest concentration of sailboats, especially high end marinas.
In these areas, except for racers and sailors who are in love with the the sport, most owners hardly use their sailboats. Usually it's one of many toys. Sometimes, they can't find any crew or they're just not physically capable anymore. Other owners are just waiting for the perfect weather day.
Generally there are two different types who donate boats ~
1. Dedicated sailor who loves the 'sport' but finds themselves in ill health and can no longer sail. Or the widow of said sailor. They don't need the money, can't deal with a sale and the donation is often worth more to them than a sale. They either donate the boat to a sailing club, which will try to sell it for market value, or advertise on Craigslist under boats for free or start asking around among their sailor friends and the folks at the marina.
2. 'Fat cat' owner loses big paycheck or all their investments tank and now they can't afford to pay the pool guy let alone the yard or marina bills, and the impeding winter or summer slip or storage fees and insurance preminum are looming.
Maybe they've listed the boat with a broker or brokers but the boat market is swamped with boats. They have no idea how to use the internet to sell it on their own. Boat doesn't sell in time to pay the marina bills or insurance bills.
Now the owner just wants to get rid of this vessel and all the bills associated with it. I personally helped 4 owners in the last 2 years with giveaway boats from a 20 foot daysailer with an working outboard to a 30 foot Cape Dory. They were all in great shape, the owners just wanted out quickly and couldn't sell. Some couldn't even deal with the selling process and had many other pressing demands on their time. 2 of those boats found new owners who never could have afforded the purchase price even at firesale prices but could afford the ongoing maintenance. The other two were abandoned and the marinas are stuck with trying to obtain title so they can either broker a sale or donation.
One week last fall, I called over 20 people to come and get a 25 Catalina, 1980 something. They all declined. The ones that were serious, figured they'd pass til spring so they wouldn't have to pay the winter storage fees. They also were betting the economic climate would get worse and they'd be more boats to choose from come spring.
If you'd made it this far in the post, my point is that there are great free boats out there. You can do your own preliminary inspection to decide whether you want to spend the money on a survey. If you think it's worth it,
spend the money on the survey. Never take one these puppies without a survey unless you've got the wallet and/or the stomach for the consequences.
Good luck.
 
#141 ·
If you think it's worth it,
spend the money on the survey. Never take one these puppies without a survey unless you've got the wallet and/or the stomach for the consequences.
Good luck.
This bears repeating. A survey just isn't all that expensive, comparatively speaking. There was a guy posted here last season or the season before, IIRC, who'd paid something like a couple thousand for a boat, no survey. It was only a couple thou, right? Ended-up costing him another $10k, or something like that, to fix her.

Who would put $10k into a boat for which they paid $2k? Somebody who had the boat and couldn't bear the thought of simply discarding a boat that could be made good? (See my previous post on the subject.)

Jim
 
#142 ·
Boat free ~ 'closing costs' are Not. ADVICE warning for free and not free boats.

Never take one these puppies without a survey unless you've got the wallet and/or the stomach for the consequences.

Thanks for bringing this up. The above should have been in the beginning and at the end and probably in the middle. Yes, if you think the boat is sailable after your preliminary inspection (shop around for surveyor referrals and prices before you do anything, so when you do find a good potential boat, you're ready to move), and believe the vessel is potentially worthy, have a professional expert check it out. Even if it is sailable, there may be hidden and costly problems you can't deal with.. if there aren't problems, a surveyor will be able to tell you what items you should plan to replace and when. If the surveyor's report gives you a go, you'll have a much better understanding of the vessel.
So yes, the boat may be free, but welcome to your watery and windy love affair - WWLA - and yes, you better love it !
The costs begin with the survey, the registration and the insurance. But you're in love with a dream, right ?
PS... If you're just starting out !~! !~ start with a Sunfish or a Laser or American 17~ you don't need more than an experienced sailor friend for that inspection, no motor = no registration, and your homeowner's will include the boat. Oh, and start on a bay or a lake, so you won't be swept out to sea ! and please wear the PFD. It's tough treading water unconscious or for hours if your lookouts decide to go for a drink. Better to be dorky and alive, than cool and dead. Anyway, there are some cool kayaking PFDs, give you great range of motion and after a while, you'll forget you have it on. (until the boom knocks you silly or you're exhausted from trying to right the sucker from a capsize, you'll remember you've got it on and be grateful and much, much more relaxed which will conserve energy).
Oh, and have FUN... it really is FUN !
 
#143 ·
Thank you Sailingmum;

That was what i was looking for, I had no illusions that a free boat would come ready to sail but the thought of taking a boat and restoring it to sailing glory appealed to me. Buying something that is in pristine condition isn't a bad thing but a boat like that anyone could buy and start sailing. An abandon boat is such a sad thought that getting one and rebuilding it back to seaworthy status, there would just be more pride in that. I hope that made sense.

As for me, well since abandon or free boats is a foreign concept around here and I don't have time to spend weeks scouring marinas for a boat to rebuild. I have seen some derelict wrecks around here but the owners are looking for premium cash. Boating in Canada, well central Ontario anyway seems to be taken up by people that love it as the window for sailing is so small.

Good luck to the OP, I hope I am never in her shoes trying to keep a home afloat with kids on board.
 
#144 ·
I only read the first three pages ...and the last three.
Why all the how great the boat is ?

It seems Shes asking for something safe for her family to live on .
I grew up with a very poor family ...just above dirt !

Something with a safe hull,moter to get them around the harbor ..Fuel ,water,pump out ?
If they fix it up later on who cares ! When they get back up on thier feet again it will be that family to decide where to go from there .
 
#145 ·
Tiara,
There's an elderly couple in your neighborhood who've been working for the Cuban government for some time now and it seems the federal government has decided that it is unlikely that they'll be needing their boat in the future. You might keep an eye peeled for a quick sale to raise cash for legal expenses, if the US Marshall's have not already plastered it in a seizure. If so, keep an eye on those government auctions in the area.
 
#146 ·
Wow,
Talk about off topic ! now we're back to lamenting the merits of a survey.
I've already expressed my feelings about "surveys and surverors" in other posts.
On one hand I hear posters claiming experience and knowledge of boats and sailing , then in the same paragraph stating they wouldn't buy a boat w/out a survey ??? So which is it?
Anyone can become a surveyor if they are willing to pay the organizations that represent them (schools,online,study courses).
What makes the "surveyor" all knowing? isn't he/she just another person offering a service for money? Are there any warranties w/ surveys ?
If your too inept to determine the condition of the equipment w/out a paid surveyor, how can you know if the information provided is accurate or relevent when you recieve the survey ?? AND if you are capable of determining the information is accurate, then what did you need a surveyor for to begin with ??
I know the banks ,insurance companies and brokers all tout the merits of surveyors. Somehow I'm just not sold on them.
I guess if your completely inept,inexperienced, and to busy/lazy to educate yourself about boats they may fill a need.
Or, if your just fulfilling the requirements for a loan or insurance policy that will require a survey.
Other than that, I question whether I really want to share the waterways with you, if you're not willing/capable of determining the condition of the boat and equipment you'll be utilizing, what else are you missing ? navigation and rules of the road skills? (basic marine courtesy,i.e.wake,noise,safety)
Reference is made here time and again questioning the judgement of living aboard a potentially unsafe vessel w/ children. I would have to add that if you feel unable to determine the condition of a vessel and equipment your considering aquisition/operation of, and you need to hire someone to tell you if it's worthwhile, then you may be more or at least as much of a risk/danger to yourself, your passengers and others on the water as the former situation, maybe even more so !
I hear all the time from the boat owners tied to the dock (for years upon years) about their vast knowledge and experience ( I always inquire when the last time they-"took her out for a sail")..
Yea, I anchor, I sail (not motor,motorsail) . Of course, I keep the diesel operational, I use it to move in and out of marinas when seeking fuel,water,pumpout. But primarilly I sail.
"If the wind's not blowin' I probably ain't goin' "
I have to add that managing a west marine, or a marina (not a DIY yard that offers dockage and not repair maint. haulout services,etc), does not equate to any vast knowledge of boating , only a knowledge of buss. management .
Even holding certificates from USCG or sailing schools only guarantee one thing- you (or somebody) paid alot of money to get a piece of paper from the organization.
Experience is going, having been, and doing. Really doing , not motoring from marina to marina and paying (outragious fees) to tie up everynight and plug in. Experience is living it , it's ongoing, it's fluent , it's continually learning different inlet's,anchorages,regulations,conditions, and exchanging information with others doing the same (not dock dogs).
Most of the Dock dwellers I speak w/ seem unsure and afraid of what's over the horizon on one hand ( seeking instead the false security of being tied to a dock), but are often the first to adamently council and warn me off of any far ranging travels.
I thank god I quit listening to them years ago. Had I not , I would probably havenever gone and discovered for myself the reality of it, with my own eyes,hands, and with my family (and pets).
As per the cost issues, I never spent more than $1-2000 for a boat, never paid a surveyor and have sailed from St.pete, Fl. to lake Erie and back (yes, I motored the NYS canal system) with family and pets aboard.
It would seem to me that if you got a boat for nothing and wisely,frugally invested money in it's repair, you would , as a result have a worthwhile vessel.
I don't think boat ownership is ever an investment that pays any returns other than the experience,knowledge and pleasure gained from it's use. Never heard anyone remark about boat ownership as a form of investment, usually the opposite, with rare exception.
Rather than seek to obtain council here in this forum I would suggest a trip to the library to read actual accounts from those with verifiable life experiences. Rather than anonymous, faceless internet personas making often unverified claims of vast experience while tied to a dock in a marina between monthly daysails.
Nothing emboldens me more than when someone tells me what I cannot do.
After all somebody had to be first to do it, who surveyed that boat?
Who certified the first surveyor?
How was the first "Captain" ordained?
 
#148 ·
Wow,
Talk about off topic ! now we're back to lamenting the merits of a survey.
I've already expressed my feelings about "surveys and surverors" in other posts.
On one hand I hear posters claiming experience and knowledge of boats and sailing , then in the same paragraph stating they wouldn't buy a boat w/out a survey ??? So which is it?
Anyone can become a surveyor if they are willing to pay the organizations that represent them (schools,online,study courses).
What makes the "surveyor" all knowing? isn't he/she just another person offering a service for money? Are there any warranties w/ surveys ?
If your too inept to determine the condition of the equipment w/out a paid surveyor, how can you know if the information provided is accurate or relevent when you recieve the survey ?? AND if you are capable of determining the information is accurate, then what did you need a surveyor for to begin with ??
I know the banks ,insurance companies and brokers all tout the merits of surveyors. Somehow I'm just not sold on them.
I guess if your completely inept,inexperienced, and to busy/lazy to educate yourself about boats they may fill a need.
Or, if your just fulfilling the requirements for a loan or insurance policy that will require a survey.
Other than that, I question whether I really want to share the waterways with you, if you're not willing/capable of determining the condition of the boat and equipment you'll be utilizing, what else are you missing ? navigation and rules of the road skills? (basic marine courtesy,i.e.wake,noise,safety)
Reference is made here time and again questioning the judgement of living aboard a potentially unsafe vessel w/ children. I would have to add that if you feel unable to determine the condition of a vessel and equipment your considering aquisition/operation of, and you need to hire someone to tell you if it's worthwhile, then you may be more or at least as much of a risk/danger to yourself, your passengers and others on the water as the former situation, maybe even more so !
I hear all the time from the boat owners tied to the dock (for years upon years) about their vast knowledge and experience ( I always inquire when the last time they-"took her out for a sail")..
Yea, I anchor, I sail (not motor,motorsail) . Of course, I keep the diesel operational, I use it to move in and out of marinas when seeking fuel,water,pumpout. But primarilly I sail.
"If the wind's not blowin' I probably ain't goin' "
I have to add that managing a west marine, or a marina (not a DIY yard that offers dockage and not repair maint. haulout services,etc), does not equate to any vast knowledge of boating , only a knowledge of buss. management .
Even holding certificates from USCG or sailing schools only guarantee one thing- you (or somebody) paid alot of money to get a piece of paper from the organization.
Experience is going, having been, and doing. Really doing , not motoring from marina to marina and paying (outragious fees) to tie up everynight and plug in. Experience is living it , it's ongoing, it's fluent , it's continually learning different inlet's,anchorages,regulations,conditions, and exchanging information with others doing the same (not dock dogs).
Most of the Dock dwellers I speak w/ seem unsure and afraid of what's over the horizon on one hand ( seeking instead the false security of being tied to a dock), but are often the first to adamently council and warn me off of any far ranging travels.
I thank god I quit listening to them years ago. Had I not , I would probably havenever gone and discovered for myself the reality of it, with my own eyes,hands, and with my family (and pets).
As per the cost issues, I never spent more than $1-2000 for a boat, never paid a surveyor and have sailed from St.pete, Fl. to lake Erie and back (yes, I motored the NYS canal system) with family and pets aboard.
It would seem to me that if you got a boat for nothing and wisely,frugally invested money in it's repair, you would , as a result have a worthwhile vessel.
I don't think boat ownership is ever an investment that pays any returns other than the experience,knowledge and pleasure gained from it's use. Never heard anyone remark about boat ownership as a form of investment, usually the opposite, with rare exception.
Rather than seek to obtain council here in this forum I would suggest a trip to the library to read actual accounts from those with verifiable life experiences. Rather than anonymous, faceless internet personas making often unverified claims of vast experience while tied to a dock in a marina between monthly daysails.
Nothing emboldens me more than when someone tells me what I cannot do.
After all somebody had to be first to do it, who surveyed that boat?
Who certified the first surveyor?
How was the first "Captain" ordained?
Yes!!!!!:thewave:
 
#147 ·
Everybody is ignorant of something. Nobody knows everything, but it sure sounds like you are the right guy to step in, and help this family. With your vast knowledge you could step right up, and actually save this family from further descent down the slippery slope.

Nobody in life starts out running. We all start just laying there, and eventually crawling, our first step, walking, falling down, and getting up, etc. etc.. I am fairly sure this includes you too?....i2f...dock dweller:laugher :laugher ;)
 
#151 ·
Unfortunately, we may never know which it is...
 
#152 ·
I can't even begin to imagine how wonderful it must be to be as wise and all-knowing as joethecobbler. I had vaguely hoped to someday achieve a similar god-like pinnacle of perfection, but now I realize perhaps I am not worthy. I will continue to strive, nonetheless--when necessary relying upon the professed expertise of others--yes, some of whom I pay for their expertise. I only pray that I will somehow muddle-through, without killing myself or anybody else!
 
#153 ·
Joethecobbler makes some good points but the spirit of it is worth ignoring. If I waited til I was so knowing, I'd be dead before I was sailing.
One needs to be careful who does the surveying and it sometimes pays to have a rigger and an engine mechanic check out those items.
I just know too many folks who bought without a surveyor or mechanic or rigger and ending up losing a lot of $$$$$ & time.
Then there are others who do just fine. It's a crap shoot.
It just pays to have the odds in your favor and how you decide to do that is up to you.
Fairwinds.
 
#154 ·
Sailingmum- I am very new to SN. Not quite sure why I read thru the entire thread. I feel tired! Have visited the site for hours of learning and humor but most of all I have spent hours of reading for the conclusion that you have provided. A solution that the family could almost see, smell and touch. Although the story smells of a scam, I believe that there are a million reasons why someone would not respond. Mostly of which is the humiliation factor. I find myself in a similar situation financially and would probably not have responded. Thank you for a proactive approach!
 
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