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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-09-2015 10:59 AM
seaner97
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
We all love our boats. I think Jeff has the bar set pretty high considering what he sails himself and he has a good grasp of the elements of yacht design. In my opinion. I think Bill Shaw did some nice, conservative boats and some real classics but nothing truly outstanding. I kind of like the old Pearson 35 and I also like the look of the 39. But I would expect their performance to be raher outdated by today's standards. I'd say the same thing about some of my own designs. Time marches and we learn more and more about what makes a boat go. My own favorite Bill Shaw boat was the little MORC yawl TINA. I drooled over that design when I was a kid.
Nice to see my venerable P35 has a spot in Bob's heart. Not the fastest or the prettiest boat in the harbor, but far from the slowest or homliest, either. Sitting on her mooring right next to a Tayanna 37, it makes up one if the prettier corners of the field.
09-09-2015 08:12 AM
JimsCAL
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

I must say I really enjoyed reading this old tread. Bill Shaw was a graduate of the school I also graduated from and taught engineering at (Kings Point), so I always had a warm spot in my heart for his designs. I owned a Pearson 26 for most of the 1980s and thoroughly enjoyed sailing her. And many of his boats like the Flyer and Pearson 37 remain competitive PHRF racers.
09-09-2015 05:58 AM
Kenoverman
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

I hav not sailed the Pearson 39, with or without a second stick, but they are pretty at the dock.
i have owned, cruised and raced a similar design, the old Charlie Morgan 41 centerboard and wish I still had her.
05-17-2013 06:34 AM
jameswilson29
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
With all due respect, except for a very brief period before Bill Shaw came on board, Pearson was not the most successful production boat builder of that era.



This also baffles me. One of Bill Shaw's greatest strengths was that he was able to produce designs in a wide range of venaculars.
My first point was merely that Bill Shaw was a preeminent and successful yacht designer in his time, just as Bob Perry, William Lapworth, Phil Rhodes, Bill Lee, Rod Johnstone, and a number of other are. I put the heyday of sailing later than you do, in the 70s, not the 60s.

My second point comes from more of an artistic and spiritual view than a technical design view. All of us have a calling and a purpose in life. If you look at his Bill Shaw's work, you can see an evolution of his design to a point where he realized his calling, his purpose in his field, the distinctive contributions he made.

To draw an analogy, in the art of writing, you can recognize a point where a particular author realizes his distinctive voice, his unique style that develops at a certain point after years of arduous technical work. From a spiritual view, that is where the author realizes his purpose, his calling in life. The same can be said of painters, musicians, and any other field where technique and art intersect. Commercial success does not necessarily coincide with, or diminish, the realization of that style.

Obviously, Bill Shaw favored certain design elements and those design elements were based on his view of how a sailboat should sail and function. Obviously, he was constrained by the science and technology of the time, the market, the business of selling boats, the need to run a company, and the desire to design to certain rules of the day.

I believe Bill Shaw realized his purpose with his design elements in the early 70s, what you refer to as his early IOR work. Several of his most successful designs came out in this period. If you were to pick a prototypical and enduring boat design, if would be the P30, followed by the P26 or the 10M. Bill Shaw realized his vision in the creation of a racer/coastal cruiser for a small family with those combination of elements.

You could say Bob Perry realized his purpose with the Valiant 40, or Rod Johnstone with the J/24, or Bill Lapworth with the Cal 40, or Bill Lee with Merlin or the Santa Cruz 27. Of course, all designers and artists further refine their style or work over the years, and one can argue that they created better work or greater success after that point, but there is a point where they make their most important contribution to their calling. You can also see where particular designers incorporate the work of others into their product. For example, can anyone deny that the Pearson Flyer shows an influence from Rod Johnstone's successful realization of his particular vision in the J/24?

I am not saying all Bill-Shaw-designed boats sail alike, but there is a distinctive feel to the realization of his design in sailboats, one that I favor. If you read the History of Pearson Yachts article in Good Old Boat, it is clear that Pearson succumbed to market forces in the '80s, first by attempting to meet the demand for condo boats, and then, by the recession. IMHO, Pearson Yachts peaked in the 70s, as did Bill Shaw.
05-16-2013 01:23 PM
JimPendoley
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

I'm not a naval architect , I sail a boat that Fred Flintstone may have once owned and love it, but the information and view points I have gleaned from this conversation have been wonderful. I've always had a weakness for the older CCA influenced desgns, yet I've learned a lot from Jeff's and Bob's observations too. I'll still likely trundle along at a slower pace, but the appreciation for other designs has been heightened by the respectful dialogue supported by the evidence. Thanks for keeping the bar high and sharing your knowledge.
Jim
05-16-2013 10:13 AM
Jeff_H
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Say what you will, Pearson was the most successful production boat builder of that era, which was the heyday of sailing.
With all due respect, except for a very brief period before Bill Shaw came on board, Pearson was not the most successful production boat builder of that era. By the time that Bill Shaw joined Pearson (around 1965-66; I first met him about 8 months after he came on the job.) companies like Columbia, Coronado and Cal had much larger production numbers than Pearson making one of those companies "the most successful production builder of that era". By the late 1960's O'day would also pass Pearson's production numbers. By the 1970's companies like Catalina out stripped Pearson's production numbers many times over. By the early 1980's, both Catalina and Hunter, and perhaps even J-Boats, outstripped Pearson's overall and annual production numbers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
His designs are still special and have been imitated by many. Bill Shaw-designed-Pearsons sail in a particular manner that many of us still appreciate today.
This also baffles me. One of Bill Shaw's greatest strengths was that he was able to produce designs in a wide range of venaculars. When you think of his body of work, from the CCA era Pearson 24/Larks, and Pearson 35 and 39's to the early MORC Trina, Tartan 27, and Dolphin 24 or later MORC Flyer, to the early IOR Pearson 26, 30, and 10M, or later IOR Pearson 31,32, and 37, to the cruising focused 303, 323, 365 and 424, one of Bill Shaw's strengths was being able to design extremely different boats. Whatever thier individual merits, have sailed many of these boats, I would suggest that they sail so wildly differently that I have a hard time with a statement saying, "Bill Shaw-designed-Pearsons sail in a particular manner".

Respectfully,
Jeff
05-16-2013 07:10 AM
jameswilson29
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

Say what you will, Pearson was the most successful production boat builder of that era, which was the heyday of sailing, and Bill Shaw was its chief naval architect.

His designs are still special and have been imitated by many. Bill Shaw-designed-Pearsons sail in a particular manner that many of us still appreciate today.
05-15-2013 10:10 PM
bobperry
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

Bill:
Your Dad did his job very well.

But,,,,at some point I, like your Dad, am going to be held up against the other designers of my time. My work will be judged. If I come out of that as well as your Dad has come out of it then I will be honored.

We are all judged. It is the human condition. ( Is that how you say it?"
05-15-2013 06:45 PM
Bill S
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

Mr. Perry,

I am particularly fond of many of your designs. Too many to name, but the Tayana, Valiant, Passport, Saga come to mind. You created some fantastic boats.

TRINA was before I was hatched, or I may have been a seedling at the time. My father was very proud of that boat. In his home office, it is the only design of his that is framed (sail plan, buttocks curves, etc) that is hanging on the wall. TRINA was fully restored by an elderly gentleman and the boat was on display at the Mystic Seaport for a celebration in honor of Olin Stephens. One of the last pictures we have of my dad was him looking into the cockpit. I have since spoken with that man. The boat is in a sad state at a boat yard on Cape Cod.

I think the point I was trying to get across to Jeff was that for his time, the old man designed what the dealers were asking for in terms of affordable boats; boats that could be obtained by the "average Joe", who wanted to experience the sailing lifestyle. He loved his job, and I think to this day still has some loyal followers.
05-15-2013 05:00 PM
bobperry
Re: Pearson 39 Yawl or not?

We all love our boats. I think Jeff has the bar set pretty high considering what he sails himself and he has a good grasp of the elements of yacht design. In my opinion. I think Bill Shaw did some nice, conservative boats and some real classics but nothing truly outstanding. I kind of like the old Pearson 35 and I also like the look of the 39. But I would expect their performance to be raher outdated by today's standards. I'd say the same thing about some of my own designs. Time marches and we learn more and more about what makes a boat go. My own favorite Bill Shaw boat was the little MORC yawl TINA. I drooled over that design when I was a kid.
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