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  Topic Review (Newest First)
2 Weeks Ago 09:44 PM
IQ_85
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

I found this thread AFTER I stumbled on Bluebird of Thorne a project of one Lord Riverdale... Apparently at least one other steel boat was built to the plans of Bluebird of Thorne 2 (1950's). It ws named "Blue Eden" is a beautiful boat and can be seen in a video on youtube. For some unknown reason Eden finished up at 54 LOD instead of 50 LOD. I would like to know why but haven't been able to find out yet. I suspect it may have been stretched a little to ease the lay of the steel plate.
Then there is Bluebird of Thorne 1 (1930's) 48 foot. (Wood?) One named "Inversanda" is discussed and shown elsewhere on this thread by its current owner.
Comparing photos of "Blue Eden" and "Inversanda" reveals a difference in the shape of the keels. Unexpectedly the Mark 2 keels actually seem to have a simpler shape and appear to be independent of the rudder skeg. The Mark 1 keels have an open "window" in them and appear to extend all the way aft to the rudder skeg. (See photo above.)
Even though Riverdale's twin keels idea never caught on commercially I think it's very interesting and may have potential for further development. But before you start spluttering about the "poor performance" of bilge keelers note that Riverdale distinguished between "bilge keels" and "twin keels" in the sailboat context.
Bilge keels are added to a sailboat design for the simple purpose of upright grounding. This allows the owner to obtain economical mud moorings. Improved performance is not an objective. This was not Riverdale's interest. Maurice Griffiths' famous and very popular Eventide was designed as a sort of economical English "volks boat" around this idea. For some people it's a choice between wonky performance or no boat at all. Typically a bilge-keeler will have one central rudder.
Twin keels however are designed in at a sailboat's beginning stage for performance reasons taking into consideration that a sailboat sails heeled-over on its side. This was Riverdale's interest. Upright grounding is just a side benefit. Obviously for large and expensive boats like the Bluebirds the economy - and ickytude - of mud moorings would not come into play at all. The Bluebirds have a rudder for each keel.
What I find interesting about the Bluebirds comes in two flavors. One is the engineering issue related to a sailboat's heeling. The other is the potential of such a design for long-distance cruising. By all accounts the Bluebirds have decent if not blistering performance. But along with that you get the side benefit of upright grounding. That could be quite handy in some waters for a number of reasons: surviving sheer stupid blunders of course; emergency repairs in a remote place; or service in a place lacking proper facilities for your boat. After all not every marina has a big Travelift.
It seems that with a properly-designed twin-keeler you could get the best of both worlds: adequate performance and amphibious pretentions.
At the present time I am aware of four Bluebirds: two Mark 1's: Inversanda and another unnamed one in England; two Mark 2's: Riverdale's original boat now in the PNW and Blue Eden most recently in Canada.
Mystic Seaport's plans collection includes this item:
31.92 BLUEBIRD OF THORNE, 50' ketch yacht; Designer, Arthur C. Robb, Design # S144
which I take to be Blue 2.
06-21-2015 11:37 AM
NeilBraun Hmmmm.... Did that actually work? I'm using my phone, I should look into how to attach images properly.
06-21-2015 11:27 AM
NeilBraun Hi Denise, I can do that.
I just have to figure out how to post pictures on here via my phone...
OK! Looks like I figured it out, this is Ingrid at anchor in the back country of the Florida Keys. Ingrid is a Westerly 25 built and designed by Dennis Rayner, (who I think was brillian) in 1966. I have a Cape Dory 25 as well and dispite being the same length they are totally different boats.
06-20-2015 10:09 PM
deniseO30
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBraun View Post
And for my first post I sensibly reawaken a thread not active since 2013.
Hi!
I have, or rather she has me, a Westerly 25, she's got three keels as some one else has already mentioned, points fine and isn't slow. She pushes through chop like its not there, tacks perfectly WHEN the inner forstay doesn't snag on the jib sheet knots, and is far from tippy, if anything she's solid as any boat I have been on and far more so than most. The old Westerlies are sort of famous for not just being able to sit when the water goes away, they are also famous for being able to go anywhere. Mines crossed the Atlantic and has been through all sorts of other craziness.
If this were not an archeological sort of thread I would have told the original poster they were looking at a potentially great boat.
Anyway, that's it for my first post,

Cheers!
Congrats! but... Show her off Neil!
06-20-2015 09:32 PM
NeilBraun And for my first post I sensibly reawaken a thread not active since 2013.
Hi!
I have, or rather she has me, a Westerly 25, she's got three keels as some one else has already mentioned, points fine and isn't slow. She pushes through chop like its not there, tacks perfectly WHEN the inner forstay doesn't snag on the jib sheet knots, and is far from tippy, if anything she's solid as any boat I have been on and far more so than most. The old Westerlies are sort of famous for not just being able to sit when the water goes away, they are also famous for being able to go anywhere. Mines crossed the Atlantic and has been through all sorts of other craziness.
If this were not an archeological sort of thread I would have told the original poster they were looking at a potentially great boat.
Anyway, that's it for my first post,

Cheers!
04-15-2013 10:38 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
Important historical note: I learned to sail on a twin keel Vivacity 20 :-)) I think Dad figured (correctly) that I'd run aground in it. Try as I might, I couldn't break that boat, lots of fun.
Me too - it was the first boat I bought. It was so slow that you had plenty of time to see the shore approaching.
04-15-2013 06:44 PM
Brent Swain
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

I have been cruising for nearly 3 decades in my current 31 ft twin keeler and there is no way I would consider going back to a single keel. Friends cruising twin keelers all feel the same. Saving a fortune in marina fees is a major consideration . There are 4 in my current anchorage, and we can all walk out at low tide.
One of my 36 ft twin keelers had a race against a sister ship with a single keel. They were even on all points of sail, except to windward, where the single keeler had a very slight advantage. The twin keeler is on her way to the Aleutians after rounding Cape Horn. Do a search under Silas Crosby for the rest of the story.
In the early 80s, most of my clients went for single keelers. Now 80% are going for twin keelers, and many of those who have single keelers wish they had twin keelers. People looking to buy one of my boats, have turned down many a boat because it only had one keel.
With a twin keeler, the ease of drying out means you will spend a lot more time sailing with a clean hull. The money you save on moorage means you will be able to do a lot more cruising, covering many miles, that the single keeler, with his high moorage bills will never sail far enough to make up for the time he has lost. Thus, in miles per year, the single keeler will be far slower overall.
On my last two trips home from Tonga, I made it from Hawaii to Vancouver Island, the first half to windward, in 23 days .Not any slower than it would be for any heavily loaded 31 footer, regardless of how many keels she had.Going south, I was south of Hawaii in 14 days .When she was emptier, I sailed circles around many single keelers of the same size.
04-15-2013 07:08 AM
djaustralia
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

Not sure if the OP is still keeping up with this thread but i'll chuck in my 2 bobs worth. Whilst the twin keel offers upright stability at low tide and a possible reduced top performance, they also have the unique ability , when heeled over under sail, that with one keel splashing the surface the other is deeply buried offering deep balast and directional force. Similar to what a canting keel would do I think. I've also seen photos of sailors actually standing on the keel that is on the windward side. Both offering extra stability and a good laugh for onlookers! Maybe give it a bit of a scrub n' clean while they're there.
03-31-2013 03:28 PM
jrd22
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

Important historical note: I learned to sail on a twin keel Vivacity 20 :-)) I think Dad figured (correctly) that I'd run aground in it. Try as I might, I couldn't break that boat, lots of fun.
03-31-2013 12:57 PM
PCP
Re: Twin Keel sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granea View Post
I have found it a great boat and ideal for where I am and what I want to do.
We all have dif needs.
Glad I ran ground on the thread.
Charles
You can look here ( the post about twin keels), for some more information:


http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...tml#post990492

Also have a look at the "Randoneur" a modern twin keel boat, or this one that won the 2012/13 boat of the year award for best family cruiser:




http://tv.yacht.de/video/RM-1260%253...e2ef877dcdf454


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