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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-01-2009 09:24 PM
davidpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I have had a very different experience than Davidpm with regards to brokers. I have been involved in literally scores of boat deals, both with and without brokers. Most brokers will work both sides of the deal, meaning that they try to bring the parties to a a fair middle, typically getting the seller to take a little less than they had wanted and the buyer to pay a little more than they had hoped, but put a deal together.
I'm not sure we are saying different things. Maybe saying the same thing in different ways.
I agree that the broker serves as a moderating influence and without them many deals would not get made.

But as you can see from the link I found at least some brokers have a concern about "poisoning the water".

Jeff has had way more experience with this than I have; my only warning to the OP is that as far as I can tell no boat broker will have a buyers interests as their only motivator. Just saying.


Also just as your brokers were successfull in making deals happen for you I'm sure it is evident that brokers are capable of discouraging a deal from happing if they think they should.
I've got nothing against brokers, in fact it looks like an interesting job, might give it a try myself in a few years.
09-01-2009 09:16 PM
davidpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptKermie View Post
I will treat a serious buyer with the respect they deserve but I will have absolutely no respect for some "bottom feeder" looking to get something for nothing. I will simply tell the bottom feeder to take a hike, not interested.
That's what great about an open market. There is room for everything. Risk is a big factor. As a buyer the higher the risk the lower the offer. If you buy a new boat your risk it supposedly the lowest and the price is usually the highest.
If I was to look at a boat Kermie had for sale by the time he showed me everything and explained everything my perceived risk would be lower and the price therefor higher.
On the other hand a bank owned foreclosed boat presents a much higher risk and therefor lower price.

So bottom feeding may be warranted and paying top price may be warranted. It depends on the risk among several other things.
09-01-2009 11:50 AM
CaptKermie
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingForCruiser View Post
That Dickerson thing was ridiculous. Supply is way greater than demand, so prices are going to go down. If/when demand is greater than supply, prices will go up. Individuals holding firm just means that those individuals won't sell their boats. The pool isn't being contaminated, it's accurately reflecting the current market.

Anyhow, lowball lowball lowball. The worst that can happen is they say no. Be a "bottom feeder" if you're buying a boat right now.
If and when the day comes I elect to sell my boat the ad will contain a line that reads "Lowballers not welcome"
I have been around buying and selling for many years and had my share of dealing with lowballers, those individuals looking for the "Killer Deal" always want something for nothing and think they are doing you a favour by making an offer. I refuse to do any kind of business with them, they are a waste of my time.
I will take the time to negotiate a fair price with someone who comes along with a fair offer that does not insult me. I will also explain all the modifications I have made, all the extra equipment I have added and any other relevant options/changes that impact the price. I will also offer a test sail and give the serious buyer time to decide and go over every inch of the boat with them. I will treat a serious buyer with the respect they deserve but I will have absolutely no respect for some "bottom feeder" looking to get something for nothing. I will simply tell the bottom feeder to take a hike, not interested.
09-01-2009 09:21 AM
Jeff_H I have had a very different experience than Davidpm with regards to brokers. I have been involved in literally scores of boat deals, both with and without brokers. Most brokers will work both sides of the deal, meaning that they try to bring the parties to a a fair middle, typically getting the seller to take a little less than they had wanted and the buyer to pay a little more than they had hoped, but put a deal together.

I have never heard of a single deal where a broker offers to buy a boat at a low ball price, and the times that I have had low-ball offers the broker presented it pretty neutrally. I don't think most brokers care whether you accept a low-ball offer or not. They may not get as much of a commission, but they get their commission much faster if you accept a low-ball.

My experience with for-sale-by-owner deals is that most owners have an unrealistic expectation of what their boat is worth based on what they see as asking prices and thier prejudice that thier boat is bettter than the other boats out there. I have almost never seen a real bargain FSBO. In my boat buying experience, I have gotten my best deals when there was a broker involved acting as a 'neutral third party' helping the Seller to understand why what I was offering was a fair price.

By the same token, when I have sold boats, I have also had brokers work a low-ball offer up to a fair price by presenting my case to a buyer. That included a case where I had my boat for sale without a broker and I was selling the boat an asking price just above what I wanted out of the boat. A fellow came in with a low-ball offer which I rejected and countered with what I wanted out of the boat. The guy went ballistic on me accusing me of bargaining in bad faith and not wanting to ever sell the boat.

I later listed the boat with a broker, and the same guy bought the boat. He went to my broker, and started with the same low-ball offer, but with the help of the Broker, he showed him similar models that has sold recently and what they sold for, and showed him what a boat at his offer price looked like. I ended up selling the boat to that guy at a price equal to my original counter offer when I was a FSBO plus the broker's commission fee.

I think that the whole buyer broker thing is a load of hoey. If you go to a decent broker, he will work for his perceived client. If you are a buyer, he will work for you. If you are a seller he will work for you. Either way his goal will be to make a fair deal at a reasonable price and in a reasonable time. No matter who he works for he gets the same commission.

In the end, whether there is a broker involved or not, the key is to look at a lot of boats of a similar type and get a sense of what they look like condition, outfitting and asking-price-wise. Normally, boats are priced 15% to 20% over the average sales price to leave room for bargaining. These days there are some pretty unrealistic asking prices out there so that the purchase price may be 75% or less of the asking price.

Jeff
08-31-2009 03:57 PM
robing
Buyer's Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by mm2712 View Post
So how do you get a broker to work for the buyer?
Hi mm2712,

John Crosby of NEYB.com prides himself on going the extra mile for the buyer.

Give him a call at: 617-207-5433 and tell him I suggested you call.

Best regards,

Robin
08-31-2009 09:20 AM
LookingForCruiser That Dickerson thing was ridiculous. Supply is way greater than demand, so prices are going to go down. If/when demand is greater than supply, prices will go up. Individuals holding firm just means that those individuals won't sell their boats. The pool isn't being contaminated, it's accurately reflecting the current market.

Anyhow, lowball lowball lowball. The worst that can happen is they say no. Be a "bottom feeder" if you're buying a boat right now.
08-30-2009 11:13 PM
mm2712 These brokers sound suspiciously like realtors and I am not sure I like either one. This sounds like what a commission based sale will do for the market and it sounds like the broker is only working for himself. Like you say there are good and bad so you need to try to trust your instincts and hope you do not get it in the end. I guess the buyer beware statement holds true here so it is important to go into a deal with the most knowledge you can get from whatever source. You stated earlier that buying from a FISBO take much longer is that something that would need financing.
08-30-2009 09:52 PM
davidpm I found evidence.
Contaminating the pool | Dickerson Boat Service Log
08-30-2009 12:32 AM
davidpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm2712 View Post
So how do you get a broker to work for the buyer?
Assuming the broker is not your blood relative it's not going to happen. Even if he is your blood relative it is very unlikely.

The broker works for his commission the commission is paid by the seller.
It depends what you mean "work for".

If money is no object and their is a specific boat you want you could theoretically offer the broker a few thousand extra to find your dream boat.
Then they would be "working for you" in one sense?

If your definition is to find your dream boat at the best possible price it's not likely to happen. It's not in the brokers best interest.

That being said every boat is an exception and so is every broker. Some, even many, are very, very nice guys.
You may find one that will really work for you in the sense of showing you a lot of boats and sharing some serious incite about what is good and bad about each boat.
You may even feel obligated, that is the plan, to buy your boat from him even if you find it elsewhere. Everyone deserves to earn a living.

Just be aware that he is paid a percentage by the seller no matter how nice and honorable he is. He has peers to face the next morning and reports to file with sold-boats.com. He is required to report low, low sale to a customer like you to sold boats.com. That same sale to himself he does not have to report.

I'm not against brokers. In fact when I retire I may consider it, it looks like a fun job. I'm just trying to explain the forces I believe are at work.

If it is your first boat buying a boat that is easily resalable from a broker is a good strategy. The broker can help you buy and sell and you will learn a lot.

Funny story:
I was walking the dock at a nearby marina last week and struck up a conversation with a fellow on a 28' classic plastic boat. He said the boat was for sale and invited me aboard. During the pitch he said he had bought the boat about 10 years ago and was lucky he got the boat. I asked him why and he said the broker loved the boat so much the broker was going to keep it for himself. I asked the brokers name but he didn't remember. Of course I had a pretty good idea who the broker was, even though there are at least a hundred brokers in this immediate area, as the story sounded very familiar.
I mentioned my brokers name and sure enough a hit.
To this day my new friend is convinced he was the luckiest guy in the world to steal this fine craft from the yacht broker who desperately wanted it for himself.
08-29-2009 10:54 PM
mm2712 So how do you get a broker to work for the buyer?
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