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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Tough little boat
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Thread: Tough little boat Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-16-2009 06:47 PM
merc2dogs
Quote:
Originally Posted by mallory42 View Post
Why not take it to a Marina and use the Travel lift, it could be a lot safer, less of a hassel and in doing this you have professional help with your rigging, a 27 foot boat mast isn't the easiest to just pop up on your boat at the ramp they are fairly heavy and I wouldn't do it with my girlfriend and nobody else. You also have to make sure that you don't put up your mast and then realize you have a bridge down the road and have to take it down, I don't know about up North but a lot of ramps down here in Florida are up smaller creeks and rivers which are crossed by low lying bridges that allow for small water craft generally on trailers but not sail boats with a 30 foot mast, know what I mean.
Oh I agree, a whole lot less hassle, but to me the reason to consider a boat trailerable is if you are able to take care of that yourself.
At more than a few yards up here, winter storage costs include launch and retrieval, and are about the same as launch/haulout and mast (un)stepping fees. So, if you don't plan on launching and stepping the mast yourself, you would be farther ahead to forget about the trailer. (driving distance to work on the boat could easily offset any savings though)

Ken.
10-16-2009 05:13 PM
mitiempo The Catalina 22 is a good trailor - sailer but not for offshore. The cockpit is too large, the companionway is much too large and the opening goes too low in the cockpit for safety. One good wave, which doesn't have to be too big when the boat is 22' long, would inundate the cabin too easily. The drop boards are also tapered which isn't good - they only have to go up an inch or so to come out.
Here's 2 pictures - Catalina 22 cockpit and the safer one on the Vega 27. Not only is the Vega opening smaller, the sides are nearly vertical so the drop boards have to be lifted up a ways to come out - less convenient but a better design for offshore.
Brian
10-16-2009 04:32 PM
Barquito
Quote:
Is the C22 really less seaworthy than these other boats? I can see that it's less comfortable- but is it really less safe- and what about the C22 makes it so?

In defense of the C22, it seems like it's heavily rigged for its displacement, and the hull is extremely thick hand-laid fiberglass. It also has small windows, all of the hatches can be well sealed and are made as strong as the deck itself, and able to be fastened securely. A lot of the parts are the same as used on the Catalina 27 which has almost 3x the displacement
I think the C22 is a well built boat for the money. I agree it does have good standing rigging. However, as a whole I don't think it was intended to go off shore. All else the same, the C22 is just too small to be as safe as the boats listed. The cockpit is too big (I did add additional scuppers). The deck gear is not very robust, and some parts don't even have backing plates. The flat shape in the hull will result in limit of positive stability (or whatever it's called) that is not high enough. And finally, I just am not comfortable with a swing keel in bad conditions. Even with good weather forcasts, I would imagine it is possible to get pretty trashed in a 3 day passage from Milwaukee to the North Channel, for example. I would like to go into bad weather knowing that the boat is stronger than I am.
10-15-2009 12:43 PM
mitiempo The Vega is 27', not 28. While there may be a saildrive in one or two, the period when the boat was constructed was before the introduction of the saildrive, and that's a good thing. Original engine was a gas or diesel with a variable pitch prop. Excellent sailer, several have circumnavigated and many have crossed oceans.
Brian
10-15-2009 09:00 AM
mallory42
Launch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by merc2dogs View Post
There are a couple of Ariels for sale in the lake michigan area. Ariels are good solid boats, well liked by their owners.

I feel that trailer 'launch able' depends more on draft than other considerations. 4ft being about the max that most ramps can handle.
Torsion half axles, would easily allow the keel support on the trailer to be within 6" of the ground as opposed to over a foot for a regular axle, so the needed ramp depth would be a bit easier to find.


Though I've thought about inflatable pontoons on the trailer, or hard floats that can be let out on reels so you could float the boat/trailer out to deeper water then 'sink' the trailer from under the boat and reel it in. That way, as long as you had deep water nearby, all you'd need at the ramp would be two or three feet of water. It would open up a whole lot of launch areas.

Ken.
Why not take it to a Marina and use the Travel lift, it could be a lot safer, less of a hassel and in doing this you have professional help with your rigging, a 27 foot boat mast isn't the easiest to just pop up on your boat at the ramp they are fairly heavy and I wouldn't do it with my girlfriend and nobody else. You also have to make sure that you don't put up your mast and then realize you have a bridge down the road and have to take it down, I don't know about up North but a lot of ramps down here in Florida are up smaller creeks and rivers which are crossed by low lying bridges that allow for small water craft generally on trailers but not sail boats with a 30 foot mast, know what I mean.
10-15-2009 08:44 AM
sailingdog The NorSea 27 is a solid boat and there was one for sale at the marina down in Annapolis that we held the Sailnet meetup at. It was on a trailer...
10-15-2009 08:41 AM
mallory42
Albin Vega again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
I actually have that book (it is a great help). What I would like to do is find a boat that is bigger and more seaworthy than my C22, but, that I can still launch from a trailer (possibly with great effort once per year). I wouldn't expect that very many boats in this range would be good for regular trailer sailing. So, the trick is to find as much boat as I can, that still has moderate draft, and probably won't get me killed if caught in a big T-storm in the middle of Lake Michigan.

Here is my expanded list:

Bristol 24 -- Draft 3'5". Standing headroom
Pacific Seacraft Dana 24 -- Draft 3"10", maybe a bit deep
Bayfield 25 -- Draft 2'11" !, too tender?
Cape Dory 25D -- Draft 3'6". 'Slouching' headroom
Pacific Seacraft 25 -- Draft 3'3". Maybe not enough headroom.
Vancouver 25 --Draft 3’10”
Cape Dory 26--Draft 3'7".
Voyager 26--Draft 3'4". Probably too hard to find.
Albin Vega 27--Draft 3’10” Maybe too deep, but, I like it.
Nor’Sea 27--Draft 3’10. Designed for trailering.
Bayfield 29 -- Draft: 3’6”! Like the head in place of V berth.
Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 --Draft 3'8". Maybe too much wood to care for.
I'll swear by this boat, built for the north seas and I believe they delivered by an Trans Atlantic crossing, to the U.S. to be sold. This little boat is very sea worthy, I've sailed on one in Jacksonville Florida on the St.Johns River at night through a squall 2 years ago from a Tropical Storm in South Florida, I know it wasn't the ocean however the river was a 3 to 4 foot white cap chop, the boat sailed really well with a reef in the sail, I was surprised. I later sailed the same boat to St. Augustine Florida off shore in 6 to 7 foot seas and didn't have a problem at all other than this I've heard of people doing circumnavigations in them, so I've heard. Be careful of Cheoy Lee's they don't call them Cheoy Leakey's for nothing.
10-15-2009 08:27 AM
mallory42
Albin Vega

Try a Albin Vega 28 they were built for the North Sea and are very sea kindly they have a nice layout tiller steering with a volvo sail drive with a 4 foot draft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
I'm looking to move up from our Catalina 22 to something that would be safer to cross Lake Michigan. I would like to keep costs down by stepping the mast and trailer launching the boat in the spring and recovering in the fall my self. So far, it looks like the Pacific Seacraft 25 would be my leading contender; moderate draft, well-built, tabernacle mast step (I think).

The limitations (other than price) are that I would need to find a boat that has at least a yard trailer, moderate draft, and mast that can be stepped by two people and an A-frame, probably fixed keel (tired of dragging weeds around on my keel cable).

What else should go on my list?
PSC25, Cape Dory25D...?
10-15-2009 03:11 AM
QuickMick
great lakes are deadly lakes

growing up on the shores of the indiana dunes, and watching the undertow take people..... then growing and watching lakes take boats.... i would step wisely.... i would suggest looking to the Mac for suggestions... but lest you want a pocket crusier check the Jclass if you have the scratch.... i know belmont harbour is expensive, so you might be able to get more boat by mooring a wee bit outside the city
09-29-2009 10:18 PM
mitiempo I don't think I'd call a Catalina 27 or the Catalina 30 "offshore capable" boats either without modifications. I'd start with that overlarge companionway and continue on to the interior cabinets that are held in place with just a few screws. There are many other items as well. In the last few weeks another asked what should be changed on a Catalina 36 for offshore use. A Catalina 36 is a lot more boat in almost all ways than a Catalina 22. Here is a post by Mainesail explaining why as his post was excellent.
Brian
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