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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Mooring vs. Slip
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Thread: Mooring vs. Slip Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-09-2009 06:55 PM
PrarieRose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Depending upon your bow roller you probably would have seen a failure mode even sooner. Bow rollers on most boats are not designed for storm force loads.


That picture below caused by a regular old working anchor not even a mooring.

Your pendants failed most likely due to heat fatigue. Any sort of "hose" is a terribly bad idea, and leather is not much better. A woven textile is a far better chafe protector because it allows the pendant to remain wet and cooler as water easily passes through woven materials. This allows cooling and the heat can also escape helping the pendant stay cool and preventing heat fatigue failures. Nylon begins to fail at 300f which is actually easy to reach under the right chafe conditions. Slide down a rope and tell me how quickly heat develops and burns you hands. Now concentrate that heat in one location for hours inside a water proof hose that acts as a heat insulator.

You also want LONG pendants. Sharp angles over a bow chock lead to compression of the pendants fibers generating even more heat at the chock/pendant intersection. A long pendant with a low angle will see considerably less chafe & heat generation than a short one with a steep angle.

This is a good pendant angle:



This is a horrendous pendant angle, plus the anchor will like case a failure too, either way this boat is doomed to a higher potential for failure in a storm:


ALWAYS remove your anchor before storms or anytime it may come in contact with the pendant. This is a fairly new pendant with perhaps a month or two of use in CALM conditions. The anchor has already begun to eat this very expensive Yale Polydine Pendant. Imagine what will happen in a storm.
.
Thanks to everyone for posting better ideas regarding chafe gear. I have certainly changed my materials used for this purpose since the incident two years ago. As far as bow rollers go, mine is a 1'' stainless post horisontally mounted throught a bushing and through a 1/4'' stainless bracket through my bowsprit and 3.5'' bronze rollers. Nothing short of the hand of god is going to bend that. That said, 24 hours at 70+ knots of wind feels pretty godlike.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, and yes, I still would rather a mooring to a dock any day except provisioning day.

Still waiting for advice on how to correct the spelling of my screen name.
10-09-2009 11:24 AM
PCP777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
That is far from the reality in a real storm. During the Perfect Storm the boat I worked on at the time was at the most protected dock in Little Harbor, NH.

She was 55 feet and when the break water at the mouth of the harbor went under water they had four to five foot breakers coming in on top of high winds. I was at sea at the time on a delivery and could not help and had my own set of problems.

Sadly the boat was snapping 3/4" dock lines like guitar strings. The minute the dock line came in contact with anything, gunwhale, dock etc. it would snap like a shot gun. There were four guys there for nearly 20 hours replacing dock lines, fenders and running the engines to lighten loads yet the boat still sustained well over 100k in damage. The owner dropped off a spool of 3/4" three strand and they went through the entire spool in 20 hours even end over ending some lines. Low tide offerd some respite from the breakers but the winds still howled

The photos below are the result of a Nor'Easter at a dock. These boats were secured as best as could be but still bit the docks and sank.


A few days after the storm:


My boat survived that storm, on her mooring, without even so much as a scratch.

Here's a video of that storm. All the boats on moorings in this cove survived too.

I'll take a mooring over a dock any day of the week in a real storm..


YouTube - Why Not To Cut Corners On Your Mooring
If I had to deal with tide or weather like that I'd have to agree with you. My opinion is based on being in a land locked lake. Crazy pics and video, thank you.
10-09-2009 09:28 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrarieRose View Post
I was the week link. I led the two 3/4'' lines that connected to two 3/8'' chains by a massive galvanised swivel, through my hawse pipes and onto a solid post. That was my undoing. In a storm, 72 knot gusts recorded nearby, the lines chafed through at the pipes. I had chafe gear in place, leather and exhaust hose. Had I led the lines over the bow roller I would have been fine..
Depending upon your bow roller you probably would have seen a failure mode even sooner. Bow rollers on most boats are not designed for storm force loads.


That picture below caused by a regular old working anchor not even a mooring.

Your pendants failed most likely due to heat fatigue. Any sort of "hose" is a terribly bad idea, and leather is not much better. A woven textile is a far better chafe protector because it allows the pendant to remain wet and cooler as water easily passes through woven materials. This allows cooling and the heat can also escape helping the pendant stay cool and preventing heat fatigue failures. Nylon begins to fail at 300f which is actually easy to reach under the right chafe conditions. Slide down a rope and tell me how quickly heat develops and burns you hands. Now concentrate that heat in one location for hours inside a water proof hose that acts as a heat insulator.

You also want LONG pendants. Sharp angles over a bow chock lead to compression of the pendants fibers generating even more heat at the chock/pendant intersection. A long pendant with a low angle will see considerably less chafe & heat generation than a short one with a steep angle.

This is a good pendant angle:



This is a horrendous pendant angle, plus the anchor will like case a failure too, either way this boat is doomed to a higher potential for failure in a storm:


ALWAYS remove your anchor before storms or anytime it may come in contact with the pendant. This is a fairly new pendant with perhaps a month or two of use in CALM conditions. The anchor has already begun to eat this very expensive Yale Polydine Pendant. Imagine what will happen in a storm.
.
10-09-2009 08:53 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP777 View Post
People talk about dock damage but if you tie your boat up properly with good lines that should really never happen.

That is far from the reality in a real storm. During the Perfect Storm the boat I worked on at the time was at the most protected dock in Little Harbor, NH.

She was 55 feet and when the break water at the mouth of the harbor went under water they had four to five foot breakers coming in on top of high winds. I was at sea at the time on a delivery and could not help and had my own set of problems.

Sadly the boat was snapping 3/4" dock lines like guitar strings. The minute the dock line came in contact with anything, gunwhale, dock etc. it would snap like a shot gun. There were four guys there for nearly 20 hours replacing dock lines, fenders and running the engines to lighten loads yet the boat still sustained well over 100k in damage. The owner dropped off a spool of 3/4" three strand and they went through the entire spool in 20 hours even end over ending some lines. Low tide offerd some respite from the breakers but the winds still howled

The photos below are the result of a Nor'Easter at a dock. These boats were secured as best as could be but still bit the docks and sank.


A few days after the storm:


My boat survived that storm, on her mooring, without even so much as a scratch.

Here's a video of that storm. All the boats on moorings in this cove survived too.

I'll take a mooring over a dock any day of the week in a real storm..


YouTube - Why Not To Cut Corners On Your Mooring
10-09-2009 08:36 AM
pdqaltair
Skip the hose as chafe gear - it is as bad as the pipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrarieRose View Post
I am a huge fan of moorings over marinas, the sailors slum. However I NEVER trust a mooring I didn't build or inspect before using. Chains rust, ropes rot and some are just not up to the challenge of holding either a 30,000 pound boat, or a bleach bottle depending on how old/insufficient it really is. In addition to how well it is built you also have to be careful about how you lead your lines. I built a "Bomb Proof" mooring a few years ago, and had complete faith in it. I was the week link. I led the two 3/4'' lines that connected to two 3/8'' chains by a massive galvanised swivel, through my hawse pipes and onto a solid post. That was my undoing. In a storm, 72 knot gusts recorded nearby, the lines chafed through at the pipes. I had chafe gear in place, leather and exhaust hose. Had I led the lines over the bow roller I would have been fine. Instead I had a winter in a boat yard and a big insurance premium increase. All that said if you don't know for a fact that the mooring you are about to tie to is in good shape, drop your anchor, thats what they are there for, just use lots of scope.

PS is there a way to change my screen name? One typo and I am going to look like an idiot every time I post.
Hose isn't slippery and trhe rain/spray can't keep it wet inside. Go to tubular webbing. I have used this for many years, it's cheap, and the wear goes to zero where protected; the line will be retired from sun-wear elsewhere.

BlueWater 2" Climb-Spec Tubular Webbing at REI.com
10-09-2009 08:15 AM
sailortjk1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgiguere View Post
We like the mooring best for many reasons:

Easy to sail on and off short handed. Boat is head-to-wind and sails go up and down without a hassle...even single handed.

Fewer lines to deal with...in a slip you need Breast and Springs lines on both sides with enough scope to ride the tide (so you don't find you boat hanging from its lines).

Pain in the butt to come and go...dodge other boats, navigat narrow passages with an engine that pulls to port in reverse...etc. Means fewer sailing days...easier to put around from the dock.

The boat is just happier on a mooring.

Better ventilation in hot weather...put up a wind-scoop.

Better visibility...no big power boats flanking you and ruining your visibility...

and many more, but it's late and can't think any more.

Moe
Crishelle
Chris Craft Apache 37 S&S sloop
I'll add a couple

Privacy from your neighbors,
no nosey dock neighbor walkng past at 5 am,
no loud stereo blasting from you next door neighbor who loves Rap or Hip Hop,
10-09-2009 04:51 AM
PrarieRose
Why has no-one mentioned?

I am a huge fan of moorings over marinas, the sailors slum. However I NEVER trust a mooring I didn't build or inspect before using. Chains rust, ropes rot and some are just not up to the challenge of holding either a 30,000 pound boat, or a bleach bottle depending on how old/insufficient it really is. In addition to how well it is built you also have to be careful about how you lead your lines. I built a "Bomb Proof" mooring a few years ago, and had complete faith in it. I was the week link. I led the two 3/4'' lines that connected to two 3/8'' chains by a massive galvanised swivel, through my hawse pipes and onto a solid post. That was my undoing. In a storm, 72 knot gusts recorded nearby, the lines chafed through at the pipes. I had chafe gear in place, leather and exhaust hose. Had I led the lines over the bow roller I would have been fine. Instead I had a winter in a boat yard and a big insurance premium increase. All that said if you don't know for a fact that the mooring you are about to tie to is in good shape, drop your anchor, thats what they are there for, just use lots of scope.

PS is there a way to change my screen name? One typo and I am going to look like an idiot every time I post.
10-08-2009 10:10 PM
mgiguere We like the mooring best for many reasons:

Easy to sail on and off short handed. Boat is head-to-wind and sails go up and down without a hassle...even single handed.

Fewer lines to deal with...in a slip you need Breast and Springs lines on both sides with enough scope to ride the tide (so you don't find you boat hanging from its lines).

Pain in the butt to come and go...dodge other boats, navigat narrow passages with an engine that pulls to port in reverse...etc. Means fewer sailing days...easier to put around from the dock.

The boat is just happier on a mooring.

Better ventilation in hot weather...put up a wind-scoop.

Better visibility...no big power boats flanking you and ruining your visibility...

and many more, but it's late and can't think any more.

Moe
Crishelle
Chris Craft Apache 37 S&S sloop
10-08-2009 10:09 AM
PaulinVictoria Thanks Caleb, I did some more searching and it seems as long as the buoys etc are not in a shipping lane and comply with Transport Canada/CCG regs then you can pretty much do what you want. I can't seem to find if there are any local restrictions. All fairly irrelevant at the moment anyway as I don't yet have a boat.
10-07-2009 06:34 PM
CalebD
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulinVictoria View Post
What are the restrictions on making your own mooring? I'm fortunate enough to live on the oceanfront and there are a few (rarely used) boats moored in the bay. It would certainly reduce my sailing budget, well OK, allow me to buy more toys, if I could moor up for free and just get a dingy to get out to her.
Thread tangent.
Depends on where you are located and what local laws are. In some communities, being a resident entitles you to mooring rights. I did this at my sister's house and for a whopping $25/year to the village hall I was entitled to deploy my own mooring for the season.
I suggest you check with your local town/village/council clerks office to find out IF you can (legally), and where.
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