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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Performance keel or standard Keel?
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Thread: Performance keel or standard Keel? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-24-2009 09:34 PM
wakesurfboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I guess the question would be, where are you sailing out of? and where do you want to take your boat? as most want a deeper keel so you can point better.
Well, Champlain lake for a while (2-3 years) move it to south (Florida) and play around there. So for Florida and Bahamas, every body will choose Shoal reef keel but I'm ready to sacrifice bay mooring for marinas to get better performance. So I don't think the performance keel is LOT better then the standard keel. Both are same design and both made of steel. The shoal reef keel is the one with much less performance. I choose the standard keel because I will upgrade it in future for a shorter one with lead bulb and this keel will be better and shorter than performance keel I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I do feel the std draft P pkg is the best way, at least you get a bit more SA, altho one fellow on the jeanneau forum says his roached main with std pkg is bigger than the main for the P pkg. But of course that begs to ask, how much bigger would a P pkg roached main be? Like all things great and small.........I would still go with the keep keel and P pkg, along with no stinking DS model either. But now we are talking personal tastes, how I use my boat, 80% racing etc. Even if I cruised it locally, not sure I would get a DS. but would still get the P pkg!
The DS model is a MUST for me because I want to use the boat as a condo so comfort is more important than racing.

The performance package include 20% bigger sails (main 420 sqft vs 357 sqft, genoa 409 sqft vs 368 sqft) but alos, sandwich construction main sail with high performance SELDEN mast, feathering blade etc.., No question performance package make the boat lot better than standard configuration.
10-23-2009 11:01 PM
blt2ski There is a fellow up in canada, that races and cruises his 39iP. He has doen the Ontario 300 two yrs running, along with taking it down the east coast with his family for a year......deep keel and all, with NO issues with the 7+' draft. Then again, maybe being in Puget sound where my depth gauge does not work half the time, ie its over 600' where I am at most of the time, so for me, this needs to be under 5' much less 4' as some say is bogus.

I guess the question would be, where are you sailing out of? and where do you want to take your boat? If you are here in puget sound, having a shoal draft for most, whether you race or not is useless, and you will probably take a hit in the overall price. as most want a deeper keel so you can point better. as here, you're either going upwind, or down. Rarely can you say you will reach for any length of time etc.

I do feel the std draft P pkg is the best way, at least you get a bit more SA, altho one fellow on the jeanneau forum says his roached main with std pkg is bigger than the main for the P pkg. But of course that begs to ask, how much bigger would a P pkg roached main be? Like all things great and small.........I would still go with the keep keel and P pkg, along with no stinking DS model either. But now we are talking personal tastes, how I use my boat, 80% racing etc. Even if I cruised it locally, not sure I would get a DS. but would still get the P pkg! Too light of winds not to have it in the summer.

marty
10-23-2009 12:06 PM
JohnRPollard I agree with the rationale to get all the "performance package" hardware. That is very nice equipment to have.

I also agree with the others who cautioned against going with the extra-deep draft. You are already in deep draft territory with the standard keel -- deep enough to limit re-sale in some areas. By the same token, I probably wouldn't want the shoal/wink keel on a boat that size unless I had an absolute draft restriction that couldn't be fudged (like my own dock).

I actually like Hellosailor's suggestion of getting a lead keel from Mars instead -- something around 5'10" or so. I wonder what sort of "credit" you could get from Jeaneau for deleting the keel?
10-23-2009 11:45 AM
wakesurfboy Most of comments and recommendation points to the performance package and standard keel over shoal reef keel.

Performance keel appear not to make a LOT of performance change and probably adds problems at resale and at south sea!

If the standard keel is a problem by using it for a while, I will make some modification to it, like cut it and put a lead bulb.

Adding performance blade, sandwich sails, new mast, etc will cost a LOT more than the performance package and putting a shorter keel with lead bulb appear feasible to me. I have one of my friend that reduce is iron keel diameter by cutting 1" around with a buffer and 2' on the bottom and he add a lead bulb made by himself! He use the NACA profile (NASA ancestor) to design is bulb.

So may be I can use is bulb mould to cast the lead and my standard iron keel is relatively thin so I just have to cut the actual iron bulb with some of the fin and put the lead bulb?

The shoal reef keel is dead for me and the performance keel appears to be more problematic for not much of speed enhancement?
10-23-2009 11:21 AM
tommays Its a question of how old Vs new are held onto the boat



On and old style you had a massive keel sump with a keel that was small on the bottom

Now there kind of upside down with the mass in the bulb and a relatively narrow area supporting all that weight

10-23-2009 11:11 AM
sailingfool I think you would find that a vesel with a 7'3" will appeal only to a racer as it si too deep for general cruising use. I have lived wioth a 6'3" keel and found it to not be much of a problem, and am very happy with the perfpormance. Go with the 6'7" but no more...unless you are focused on racing.
10-23-2009 11:07 AM
hellosailor Some of us think that "six feet" is a magic number. That is, any keel more than six feet deep will be problematic in a lot of areas and probably constrain your buyers to those who race and cruise further offshore, or in deeper waters. She'll never sell in Florida or to folks going into the islands, but that's just the way it is. On the other hand, she should point upwind and move faster.

Iron keels come iwth the territory, I suspect Jeanneau and Beneteau use them because they are 'good enough' and reduce the selling price substantially compared to lead. Find a similar boat with a lead keel, check out the price, that should speak loudly.

What can you do, choices have to be made.

Of course, if you feel really lush, you can contact Mars Metals and have them fab up a proper lead keel for the boat, in any style you please. I wonder if Jeanneau ever gets requests to "deliver one without a keel". (G)

Of course lead keels are pretty much a cheap man's option, too. After Berty Roos (?) lost a borrowed spent-uranium keel in the Southern Ocean, I think governments got a lot less interested in loaning out THAT excellent material. But, you can easily buy tungsten on the open market. Safe to handle, easy to obtain, about twice the price of lead and twice the density as well. (Start collecting all those old light bulb filaments, now.(G))
10-23-2009 09:52 AM
wakesurfboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
I race on a 7' draft boat a LOT and you gotta really be CAREFUL as with type of keel its easy to do catastrophic damage compared to and old style keel of similar draft
I think there is no big difference between standard keel vs performance keel, only 8" remember. The big differences are between shoal reef keel vs others.

I talk to the dealer and he tells me the performance keel is only slightly thinner and longer, same construction, same price.
10-23-2009 04:44 AM
tager I'd go for the high performance keel. Obviously you like performance, so why not go all the way?
10-23-2009 01:26 AM
blt2ski If you go to jeanneau owners network - Home there are over a dozen folks that regularly post about sailing there 36i's, both P and non P models. Overall, folks are not liking the shoal draft, prefering the std at a minimum, or the deeper version overall. For me, it would be a P deep draft keel model. There are a couple that are racing there rigs, along with a number that have done some pretty nifty mods to them too. Right now that sight has more 36i folks posting, with 39i behind, then different versions of the DS models.

and if you go to http://jeanneau.tripod.com/ you can find polars for the 36i vs 36iP in the specs area. If you can not find them, email or pm me and I can send you the pdf files that are on that site.

Marty
a Moderator on that site
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