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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-12-2010 11:33 AM
oldironnut Don't stop asking questions until you know everything.
12-24-2009 10:52 AM
15% just aroung the corner

Dont get red of anything with adjustable carb jets just yet.

I can't seem to be able to copy and past so you will have to check out page 13.

Your digital copy of the December 25 The Log Newspaper is now available!

Click Here

Originally Posted by timebandit View Post
An up date---

Senators Introduce Mid-Level Ethanol Bill to Protect Boaters, Consumers

Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:00:00 AM
Last updated: Thursday, October 01, 2009 4:34:00 PM

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Senators Susan Collins (R-Maine), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) and Mary Landrieu (D-LA) on Sept. 14 introduced strong legislation designed to protect consumers, the environment and manufacturers from the introduction of intermediate “mid-level” ethanol blends in gasoline, such as the currently prohibited 15-percent ethanol blend called E15.

Photo by:
Science First — S. 1666 is designed to ensure fuel blends are safe and efficient.

The Clean Air Act now sets the maximum permitted ethanol level in gasoline at 10 percent; however, a consortium of ethanol producers called Growth Energy is petitioning the EPA for a waiver to allow blends of up to 15 percent in all gasoline sold -- including marine fuels.

S.1666, the “Mid-Level Ethanol Blends Act of 2009,” would require that new fuels introduced into the marketplace be compatible with the inventory of on-road and non-road gasoline engines -- including boat engines -- currently in use nationwide.

Taking a “science-first” approach, S. 1666 is designed to protect consumers with marine engines, outdoor power equipment and other non-road engines, as well as automobiles. The bill would require that EPA’s Science Advisory Board study the compatibility of mid-level ethanol fuel blends with current engines before a waiver can be granted. The study would also include a comprehensive analysis of available independent scientific evidence on the compatibility of mid-level ethanol fuels with the emission requirements of the CAA and the operability of engines, among other things.

“During these difficult economic times, equipment damage due to ethanol-gasoline fuel blends only adds to the many challenges facing our nation’s farmers, fishermen, independent woodsmen and recreational industry,” Sen. Collins said. “As we pursue strategies to lessen our dependence on foreign oil, we must also take action to ensure that ethanol fuel blends are safe and efficient for small engines.”

“Ethanol simply burns differently than gasoline,” explained Sen. Cardin, a member of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. “I fully support the development of biofuels to help cure the U.S. of its dependence on foreign oil -- but we need to make such a transition in a way that helps, not hurts, commercial and recreational equipment, as well as the environment.

“We need to let good science guide us in making sure that we are getting the clean air benefits and engine performance that boaters, lawn care companies and others who rely on smaller engines deserve,” he added.

NMMA President Thom Dammrich applauded the senators for their introduction of a common-sense bill that addresses the issue of ethanol-blend fuels, and the numerous complaints of boaters who have already sustained major damage to their fuel tanks, fuel system components and engines through the use of existing ethanol fuel blends.

“This legislation validates a science-first approach to ethanol policy and shines the spotlight on the myriad issues associated with hasty attempts by ethanol advocates to introduce mid-level ethanol blends into the marketplace,” Dammrich said.

NMMA has raised serious concerns about the potential impacts of mid-level ethanol blends on recreational marine engines and boats, including increased air emissions, performance and durability issues, as well as warranty concerns. No recreational marine engines, fuel systems or boats are currently designed, calibrated, certified or warranted to run on any fuel with more than 10 percent ethanol.
S. 1666 is supported by a wide and diverse coalition of organizations, including environmental groups, engine manufacturers, food groups, consumer groups and refiners.

This article first appeared in the September 2009 issue of The Log Newspaper. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.
12-07-2009 12:37 PM
8 hp Tohatsu idling problem

I am docked in Sanford FL and have the same idling problem. The difference is that I only use fuel with no ethanol from my marina. The motor is a 2006 that I bought in September. It has been used very little. The problem could have come from before I owned it but that would not explain why it was idling fine before I traveled for 10 days over the holiday and will not idle now. Before I start taking the carb apart I am investigating possible air leaks from the fuel connections which don't seem to be authentic Tohatsu.
This may not help your problem but the possibility of picking up dirt from the tank makes the filter addition a very good idea too.
12-03-2009 06:49 PM
dabnis Larry,

FWIW, I have used "Berrymans B-12 Fuel Additive" for over 30 years in older and newer cars, 2 and 4 stroke outboards and motorcycles and have never had any of the problems you described or any other for that matter. As mentioned earlier it is vital that you drain the carb if it is not going to be used for more than a month or so. Don't ask me how I know this. No affiliation with Berryman's products, use at your own risk. This is hot stuff, will melt some plastics and paint.

12-03-2009 05:42 PM
LarryandSusanMacDonald I just sent this request to Tohatsu:
":Bought the Tohatsu 4 stroke 8 HP new last spring. The problem seems to be it does not like E-10 gas. I've had to disassemble and clean the carburetor twice in the last month to clean the slow idle jet. It is difficult to find straight gas without the ethanol. We are cruising on our boat and can't always get ashore to get fresh fuel for our dinghy. Any adjustments, fixes, additives, suggestions to help the problem? "

And got this response:

Hello Mr. Macdonald,

Try adding the correct amount Fuel Stabilizer made by StaBil to your next tank of fresh fuel. This should prevent the problem you are describing.

Keith Vargen
Product Support
Tohatsu Outboards
Nissan Marine
12-03-2009 05:08 AM
tommays Ya have to read a newer manual
12-02-2009 09:48 PM
hellosailor I missed the quote from the manual. Have you asked Tohatsu where they expect you to find "E-zero" gasoline in the US these days? Or if they have a retrofit kit available to deal with E10?
12-02-2009 01:48 PM
LarryandSusanMacDonald Don't think is was gray market. Purchased it at Boater's World in Annapolis during their 'going out of business' sale. But it says (as mentioned earlier in this thread) in the manual that you shouldn't use E10 fuel.
12-01-2009 09:27 PM
hellosailor Seafoam is NOT fuel stabilizer. Sta-Bil would be the #1 brand of fuel stabilizer, and it works very nicely. While Sta-Bil is largely naphtha, basically gasoline stock, the "secret" ingredients in it actually stabilize the gasoline compounds. (Gasoline typically is blended from 60 different components.)

Seafoam is a mixture of "IPA" isopropyl alcohol, light mineral oil, and naphtha. In other words, alcohol to clean things and "explode" to steam clean the cylinders, gasoline stock so it keeps running the engine, and extra oil to lubricate the parts which the alcohol has just steam-cleaned and left bare of lubricant.

You can make up your own mixture to do the same thing, read their MSDS and you'll see the proportions. Personally? I can't see any reason to use it unless you are trying to use that steam clenaing to blow out carbon on engine valves, or something like that. And, even a pot of old coffee will do that.

Ethanol in gasoline is, and for many years has been, not only normal and common but required in much of the US. I'd be really surprised if a Tohatsu engine could not run on standard E10 (10% ethanol) gasoline, and consider it unsuitable for use or sale in the US market. Was this a gray-market engine not sold by an authorized US dealer?

Gasoline without 10% ethanol is impossible to find in many states. You can buy "100 LL" aviation gasoline at many airports--but that's also LEADED fuel, and you can expect to pay $4.50/gallon for it. Some marinas might carry "real" gasoline...but unless you live near one, that's something you can't expect on any regular basis. (And I went looking for it, because the "winter" E10 blend really kills mileage in my car, but in some states "real" gasoline simply won't be found at any conventional gasoline station.)

Personally...I'd break it down again, make Real Damn Sure everything was surgically clean and correct on the reassembly. If rubber parts were left in contact with fuel over the winter, or fuel that was not stabilized was left in the engine more than 90 days (pump gas breaks down after 90 days), it might just need a good cleaning, some rubber replaced, or something may have been assembled just a bit off.

Using E10 shouldn't be the problem though. Not if you follow the "rules" about using it up or stabilizing it, and not if the engine was sold for the US market. You should be able to contact Tohatsu directly to ask them about using E10 in the engine. Tohatsu Outboards: Authorized North American Distributor for Tohatsu Outboard Motors, Parts, & Accessories. should get an answer for you, for sure.
12-01-2009 06:46 PM
Bellita I have the 2hp version of the Tohatsu motor. the manual states on p4 that

alcohol in the fuel eats the rubber and plastic parts and any damage is not covered under the also states it will cause starting, idling and other problems. Finally it states not to use any gas over 10% ethanol or 5% methanol.

Funny, never read that until I saw this post. Sure glad I don't deal with methanol where I live....
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