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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Coast Guard OUPV question
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Thread: Coast Guard OUPV question Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-10-2009 12:55 PM
jackdale
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post

When this thread settles down, and people are more interested about learning than proving some else wrong, I will tell you what the USCG LT. Commander who was a guest speaker in our class had to say about this rule. He was the board that help write the revisions way back when after we adopted Colregs.

But I will tell one thing he said, and it proved to true here also. "It sure does get people looking through their rule book and that's not a bad thing."
Your last statement is dead on. These discussions do lead to a better understanding of the rules. This rule led to a long discussion with a student in September. She was concerned that the Canadian modifications violated the International rules.

I am interested in what the guest speaker had to say. Things have been quiet for a day.
12-09-2009 10:50 AM
jackdale
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
I think that WIGs are as well hidden as Imps, Goblins and leperchauns.
Have you seen one??
Just pictures.

There are lots on Google images.
12-09-2009 09:46 AM
JohnRPollard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Have you seen one??
It's been a while, but I've seen a WIG more than once on Chesapeake Bay, in the vicinity of N.A.S. Patuxant River. I didn't catch his light configuration, though.
12-09-2009 09:34 AM
Boasun I think that WIGs are as well hidden as Imps, Goblins and leperchauns.
Have you seen one??
12-09-2009 12:14 AM
jackdale
Quote:
Originally Posted by tap View Post

Rules 25(e) is the only one that I could find that has a "same for inland/international except ..." text. I think it's the only rule where there is an inland-international difference that isn't in the shapes or lights themselves, but only what size of vessel must display them. Thus the picture applies to both sets, but when the pictured shape is needed differs.

Rule 30- has an exception

Rule 30

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

1. in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
2. at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, if practicable, [Inld] where they can best be seen;

1. two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
2. three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

(g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule. [Inld]

There is no illustration.

I just noticed that WIGs are included in the International Rules for Rule 18 but excluded in the Inland Rules

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule18.htm

Any ideas why?
12-08-2009 07:56 PM
tap
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
I think the reason for the language under the graphic on page 78 is to allow the illustration to serve for both pages 78 and 79. I would view the language in the caption as a summary of the COLREG and Inland Rules exception to the COLREG.
That's only reasonable explanation I can see too. If you look at all the other pictures, they always say, "same for inland" or "same for international" if the picture also applies to the other set of rules. In the cases where the rules differ and the picture would not apply to the other set, there is no "same for" text.

Rules 25(e) is the only one that I could find that has a "same for inland/international except ..." text. I think it's the only rule where there is an inland-international difference that isn't in the shapes or lights themselves, but only what size of vessel must display them. Thus the picture applies to both sets, but when the pictured shape is needed differs.
12-08-2009 07:41 PM
jackdale The complete Rule 25(e) from ColRegs (COLREGS)

"(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."

No exceptions, no modifications.
12-08-2009 07:22 PM
jackdale
When in doubt read the instructions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
jack, you quoted the inland rule twice, there is no debate on the inland rule.
Budd

Read the instructions.

- If a paragraph or word is italicized, that means there is no corresponding paragraph or word in the other set of Rules. The set of Rules the paragraph or word applies to will be at the end of the italicized text and look like this: [Intl] or [Inld]

The material in italics is included in the Inland Rules, but is excluded in the International Rules.
12-08-2009 06:11 PM
bubb2 jack, you quoted the inland rule twice, there is no debate on the inland rule.
12-08-2009 06:08 PM
bubb2
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
Not to open a whole other can of worms, but my gripe with this particular provision (25(e), both Inland and Colreg versions) is that it has no business being located in Rule 25. It is dealing with a vessel that is by the very definitions of the Regs a motor vessel, but the rule is listed in the section describing Lights and Shapes for sailing and rowing vessels.

In my opinion, the conical dayshape rule belongs in Rule 23, and should be reworded to read: "A vessel being propelled by machinery also proceeding under sail shall exhibit...", instead of "A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit..."
John, I agree with you 100%. This rule does refer to motorsailing and not just motoring. but that is why I believe it has it's own rule.

I bought this rule in thread to make a point about how much a person studying on their own would miss out on the class room discussions.

When I was in my class the very discussion came up. Half the class saw one way and the other half saw the other way.

When this thread settles down, and people are more interested about learning than proving some else wrong, I will tell you what the USCG LT. Commander who was a guest speaker in our class had to say about this rule. He was the board that help write the revisions way back when after we adopted Colregs.

But I will tell one thing he said, and it proved to true here also. "It sure does get people looking through their rule book and that's not a bad thing."
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