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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-06-2016 10:48 PM
Stu Jackson
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalEddie View Post
Sloops may sail better, be easier to maintain, and be simpler overall...but, cutters are just plain ol' prettier. Does one really need a better reason to have a staysail in the foretriangle?

Ach, your avatar belies your post.
03-06-2016 10:35 PM
Rob Patterson
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Several years ago I sailed a thirty something foot hunter with a cutter rig. no problem tacking. that boat turned on a dime.

My coronado 23 is sloop rigged but has trouble with tacking in light wind.

I just did a sea trial on a Hans Christian 48T. Wind was light. No problems tacking.

I like the cutter for appearance and more options. I plan on extensive cruising.
03-06-2016 08:04 AM
SVAuspicious
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I still suggest that this ( Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts) is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.
I suggest the science remains solid. It is the context and boundary conditions that have moved. Underlying assumptions (like the IOR rule) are not apparent because "everyone knows." A very useful application of older books like Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts is to lead the reader to ask "why?" This is far from taking statements with a grain of salt. This is about enhancing understanding. Consider the portion of the Construction Methods thread about top hat structures: "why?" leads to discussions of section modulus, neutral axis, moments of inertia, tensile strength, compressive strength, and shear strength. You don't have to become a structural engineer to understand the concepts and even some basic scaling ("this is stronger than that"). The steel industry has (or had) catalogs of shapes (that include top hats by the way, going back at least to the 40s); there is all kinds of great information in those catalogs and a lot to be learned - compare one shape to another of similar size and the same shapes in different sizes.

The same methodology applies to sail construction and shape, to electrical systems, to electronics and networking, and even to human factors like deck and cabin arrangements and electronics UIs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierat View Post
Agreed wholeheartedly - but I still need to find someone willing to take me. Any suggestions there?
Local yacht clubs and other racing programs, hang out around marinas, develop relationships with dockmasters and harbormasters who will point you to people looking for crew.

I learned a lot racing, especially small boats. I made some mistakes that led to great lessons that endure today. Racing taught me sail trimming, boat speed, pointing, crew management, the application of geometry and trigonometry (trigonometry is beautiful), and prioritizing. I also learned a lot sailing with people whose built-in crews grew up and moved out. Cruising taught me that a really good meal is much better than sandwiches, to pay attention to getting enough rest, to letting go, that sometimes the thing to focus is a sunset or mist over the water at dawn; oh - also how to fix darn near anything on the boat. *grin*
03-06-2016 04:13 AM
Pierat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I still suggest that this is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Jeff
Excellent point (which I also wholeheartedly agree with). I like the book, since regardless of the conclusions, it nonetheless presents questions and considerations for a newbie like me to contemplate. That the science is still valid is an extra bonus. And regarding both the science and conclusions, my philosophy is to take it all with a grain of salt, but more particularly, to also examine it in context with as many other sources as possible (within reason).
All excellent comments above, and greatly appreciated. Thanks
Pie Rat
03-06-2016 04:04 AM
Pierat
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Stop reading. Go sailing.
Agreed wholeheartedly - but I still need to find someone willing to take me. Any suggestions there?
03-05-2016 08:16 PM
gptyk
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Stop reading. Go sailing.
What this guy said. I hear he knows a little about boats
03-05-2016 02:10 PM
Yorksailor
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

For long range cruising boat a staysail is very valuable but not essential. Our boat is happiest and easiest to sail in 30 knots+ with deep reefed main and staysail. However, the furler broke 50 nm out of Panama and we sailed 7,000 nm to New Zealand with only the genoa but when reefed the effort moved up the mast.

Short tacking the genoa through the narrow slot between the two forestays is a pain and it makes it impossible to do well in the Wednesday evening club races.

For a in-the-bay sailor I would buy a sloop but off-shore in bad weather I love my cutter!

Phil
03-05-2016 01:03 PM
Jeff_H
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierat View Post
How's this for a record: I'm reading the original post after 14 years; and (while admittedly, I'm just a wanna be sailor thus far), it still seems relevant. I'm currently reading Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts by the Tech Committee of the Cruising Club of America, and was getting confused by their description of various rigging styles. Incidentally, the copy I have appears to be a 1987 edition; does anyone know if there is a more up-to-date edition of Offshore Yachts?
Thanks greatly
Landlubber
I do not believe that there is a later edition of Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts than the 1987 edition. I would caution against applying the conclusions of this book to literally.

While much of the science is still valid, in the 30 plus years since the original research was complied, much has been learned about applying that science. The improvements in the sailing sciences and the the way it is applied means that many of the so-called undesirable characteristics have proven not to be all that undesirable.

But also like many of the post-Fastnet-Disaster books, the basic conclusions were predicated on research that used IOR era designs as the surrogates for 'modern yacht design boats'. The problem with using the IOR era boats as a model, is that they had a broad range of design elements which were early in their development, they had IOR rule specific design compromises that collective compromised their seaworthiness and ease of handling, and contained extreme examples of what we now know to be dubious design practice. It is therefore important to understand that over the past 30 years (or over 35 years if measured from the Fastnet), yacht design practices have evolved in a manner which addresses many of the deficiencies that were part and parcel of the IOR era.

I still suggest that this is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Jeff
03-05-2016 01:19 AM
bobperry
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Stop reading. Go sailing.
03-05-2016 12:53 AM
Pierat
Re: Cutter rig vs. sloop rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by krozet View Post
This has to be a record... Responding to a post over 7 years old?
How's this for a record: I'm reading the original post after 14 years; and (while admittedly, I'm just a wanna be sailor thus far), it still seems relevant. I'm currently reading Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts by the Tech Committee of the Cruising Club of America, and was getting confused by their description of various rigging styles. Incidentally, the copy I have appears to be a 1987 edition; does anyone know if there is a more up-to-date edition of Offshore Yachts?
Thanks greatly
Landlubber
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