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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-20-2010 03:25 PM
hellosailor EJO I'm not sure but I think you totally misread me wrt salaries and educational levels. When there is a blizzard and your home heater has failed, a good plumber may be worth more than a lawyer, even if the plumber has seven years less schooling. I know folks with widely varying amounts of formal education versus training or career time, and can only say the formal education mandated (or encouraged) for some is a waste.

After all, if no one took our trash away, we'd be buried and dead in it before we needed tax accountants or fancy doctors, wouldn't we? The value systems are all screwed up. For income, education, and taking care of kids, among so many other things.
05-20-2010 02:41 PM
EJO HELLO sailer I like what you're saying too except regarding the higher salaries for people with higher education comment. Partially that is true, but doesn't that mean the higher the salary the more belligerently ignorant people you will be paying for indirectly.

But back to what all started this. If Laura Dekker wants to sail around the world in her Gin Fizz let her, she will get more education daily (with no time off) than going to any school could give her. It looks like she won't be un-supervised and Jessica Watson did it and received a hero's welcome in Australia.
05-20-2010 01:26 PM
hellosailor Bear in mind that the US school system,. like most of the western nations, was designed not to educate but rather to produce malleable droid workers for the industrial revolution and factory laborers. Imagination was to be stifled and discipline and rote memory (and obedience) were the key goals.

Yes, this has changed somewhat, in some places, in the last 40 years, but there's still a lot of debate over what and how is taught. And one might suggest that instead of massive outcries over "How come our kids can't behave or do math?" one might suggest dropping mandatory education after grade school, so that the kids and parents who don't grasp the concept, can get a nice steady union job picking up the trash, or diging the ditches, and save the quarter to half million dollars they'd otherwise lose in upper school and college.

the dream of "educating everyone" only works if folks want to be educated, and many of them insist on remaining belligerently ignorant. OK, let them. That just means the ones who get a higher education will be able to restore their higher salaries, with less competition. Works for everyone that way, too.

But LD is not an education question. The question more topical for here, is how societies treat their "incompetents". Children, elderly, ill, who cannot speak with full competency for their selves. In some socieities we say the parents can do what they please, strating at conception. In others, we say that the parents have NO RIGHTS over the children, except the ones society allows them to have. And "persons in need of supervision" are given it, by the government, regardless of who or what their blood relatives and former guardians think. There are unfortunately a lot of poorly educated socailly unfit parents and guardians out there. "That's my kid!" doesn't mean anyone has the right to endanger it--unless their society has given it to them.

Heck, kids are cheap. Five minutes work, nine months later you pop out another one and maybe a quarter of them survive to age ten, right? [sic]
05-20-2010 10:10 AM
EJO LauderBoy you are right. You did get my jest. Laura at 13 or 14 years old can with 99% certainty point on a map or chart for that matter where you live if you told her and than could figure out how long it would take in travel time using an airplane, boat, bicycle, and car traveling at determined speeds between point A, B, & C., contrary to 50% or more of her age group here in the States that can't even point out her country on a world/Europe map and think that the Netherlands is part of Scandinavia.
Yes there is no official home schooling in the Netherlands like there's here in the US and yes some parents can do a good or better job educating their children without formal public school.
05-20-2010 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by EJO View Post
It results in a higher literacy, match proficiency, and all around better general educated 16 year old(10th grade) than here in the US where too large a percentage of the 10th graders can't read, write or add above an elementary (6th grade) level.
The law requiring people to go to school doesn't result in that. It's that there's a better school system there than what's in the US.

Fortunately in the US parents can opt to not send their children to a public school and home school them instead.
05-19-2010 01:59 PM
Dutch education (laws)


John I just noticed your comments from last fall and only want to say that it being a law to have to go to school in the Netherlands is not that bad. It results in a higher literacy, match proficiency, and all around better general educated 16 year old(10th grade) than here in the US where too large a percentage of the 10th graders can't read, write or add above an elementary (6th grade) level.
12-24-2009 11:24 AM
tommays One of the bigger issues in the USA right now is what we get taught and it has been decided we ALL need to go to collage in my neck of the woods, as we are a high tech society.

This ignores the fact that we need a well-balanced society and it's highly unlikely the need for skilled trades is going aware soon,

This first affected me in 1973 when i went to trade school rather than collage and the end result in my area is the TWO-YEAR trade programs are pretty gutted. The continual upgrading of high school standards make it almost impossible now to get out of school and be self-supporting as the goal is to go to collage and then go to more collage and get a masters.

My friend Jim owns a pretty big dock building business and his sons went into it with him and one of the sad things i have seen is the people who think it is a shame they have to work with there hands

All this from the people who know whats best

And yes i pulled my daughter out of main stream high school for 3 years beteen 14 and 17 while she was in a ballet company full time and it did NOT hurt a bit as there worried about seat time for funding more than what your learning S

She will have her masters in 18 months

Funny thing is the most lucrative thing she does is teach ballet as here training was so good
12-24-2009 10:31 AM
duncanm I was wondering if anyone would be interested in taking part in a live debate on the topic of young sailors attempting trans-atlantic and world non-stop and stopping cruises?

Ideal but not essential, you should have a relevant perspective:
-You are a young sailor
-You are the parent of a young sailor
-You are an instructor
-You have been on a round the world trip cruising/non-stop
-You have a background in child psychology
12-24-2009 07:42 AM
duncanm Just wrote a blog post on this, my thoughts are that irrespective of what the law sees as a 'legal' adult that if they are able they should be allowed.

We live in a world which is very caught up about how we should be educated and how we should live our lives, Sir Ken Robinson gave a great talk at TED highlighting this. Everyone is different and should be able to prove themselves.

Mike Perham and his peers is great example and is beginning to show us that we need to re-think our perceptions of what kids can and cannot do..

Best of luck to her!
12-23-2009 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by PierreMundo View Post
Laura is a Minor. In The Netherlands an Adult is over18 years and and completely independent at 21. (an Adult is in most law-systems action capable). School-duty ends at 18. A substitute for school-duty is possible at 14 (many laws apply). Here started the problems for Laura. What we donít know is how Father and Laura approached the officials. I think they overlooked this traject.

If you want to use the law you like or want it you have to be smart and watch your steps.

All we have now are the facts we read in the paper and more important on her webpage. So we can complain about government actions in the US, Holland or name a place, I then suggest to move to the Politics/Religion/War/Government thread.

Officials, Laura and family are now working on a complete detailed plan to make it possible for everyone that Laura sets sail. A complete detailed plan that should have been there from the beginning, that as we, as sailors, know is one of the most important things we need out of sight of land.

If there was a good plan (not a dream) and a right approach I doubt the government was involved as it is now.

Iím looking forward to a strong sailor-girl who is prepared.
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