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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-22-2017 04:57 PM
MikeOReilly
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
...But having said this, after a lifetime of sailing, it's about the safest activity I do. Way safer than driving or bicycling, say.
This gets back to the original point of this thread. No matter how you measure it, sailing a keel boat is a very safe activity — much safer than many other activities we all routinely do like driving, bicycling or eating certain foods. This doesn’t mean anyone should be cavalier about the risks. Appropriate practices and safety equipment should always be used, but nor should we be “afraid.”
03-22-2017 04:36 PM
Tanski
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
Maybe the Hunter owner just needs to relax with some peace, quiet, and privacy. Something about being on the water helps with that.
Since you know so much how much boat traffic on that bay?
03-22-2017 04:35 PM
TomMaine
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
I do know my personal greatest safety concerns when sailing, in no particular order are falling in the drink (while sailing, at dock or at anchor) and not being able to get back on board, a catastrophic loss of bouyancy (sinking) and a catastrophic loss of maneuverability which leads to a Cascade effect.
Those are mine, too. Alone or not, we usually tow our Nutshell tender(a beamy hard tender). I can get back into that when swimming, without swamping it, pretty easily(we test that now and then).

That doesn't work for most people(and I'm not advocating it), and under AP is useless, but it's another chance, maybe.

However, I sail in Maine and I often sail alone. If I go overboard - I figure I'm dead.

If I go overboard with a PFD not that far offshore, a little later, I'm dead too(water temperature).

Sinking is quite a bit down my list, but that's dead, too.

But having said this, after a lifetime of sailing, it's about the safest activity I do. Way safer than driving or bicycling, say.
03-22-2017 04:21 PM
ColoGuy
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Maybe the Hunter owner just needs to relax with some peace, quiet, and privacy. Something about being on the water helps with that.
03-22-2017 03:58 PM
Tanski
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

What constitutes a small boat? In my current marina and the yacht club in Toronto before that I'd say "small" 30' and under was the rule rather than the exception.
I've been sailing my entire life, 47 years for sure of 48, and the biggest boat I've owned is 25', smallest was an Opti dingy.
I know people in the Kawartha lakes (cottage country) that have never owned anything over 16' yet have 20, 30, 40 years of sailing experience. No point in owning anything bigger!
At my current marina the is one boat over 30' and thats a Hunter 38 I've never seen under sail, it's the guys first boat. Only owned it 2 years, this summer will be his 3rd. He can write the cheques for it but can't sail it as far as I know! Powers out to the middle of the bay and drops anchor for the weekend, powers back Sunday night.
03-22-2017 03:40 PM
Arcb
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
If I were to infer anything from the dataset I’d say the best correlation to injury/death is with boat speed. The dataset does have a field for education and experience. Maybe you can make something out of that. It’s not clear to me what it says.
.
I took a read, but it doesn't mean anything to me, especially the education part. I guess the numbers for experience seem to indicate moderately experienced people are at the greatest risk, while the least experienced and most experienced seem to be at the lowest risk.

I'm not really sure, I don't have much experience working with statistics.

I do know my personal greatest safety concerns when sailing, in no particular order are falling in the drink (while sailing, at dock or at anchor) and not being able to get back on board, a catastrophic loss of bouyancy (sinking) and a catastrophic loss of maneuverability which leads to a Cascade effect.
03-22-2017 02:56 PM
ColoGuy
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Drowning is the killer. How many were wearing buoyancy gear and still drowned? How many were decent swimmers yet the storm was so bad that it didn't help much? How many were sober? How many were storm related?

I'll bet driving is far more dangerous. They ramped up interstate deaths in Colorado when they encouraged speeding in the left lane. You get the middle finger salute and maybe a slap on the brakes if doing anything less than 85mph. And the Highway Patrol can give you a ticket if are not using the left land for passing. So the right lane become a traffic jam while the left lane has high speed flyers with the law on their side these days.

High speed rollovers are often fatal. I'll bet that most drownings involve at least two out of four:
1) alcohol/drugs
2) no buoyancy gear
3) inadequate swimming ability
4) stormy weather

I'll bet that lifeguards don't drown very often unless they are in a rescue situation. Rescuing can be pretty dangerous in my experience.
03-22-2017 02:23 PM
MikeOReilly
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
I don't think that reflects on education. How many times have you dumped a canoe? I'm thinking I have probably dozens of times (almost always with a PFD and more often than not a helmet too). I have never capsizes my 35' sailboat. Same goes for swamping small stink pots, I'm not sure how many times I've done it, but more than a few times, but I've never swamped a keel boat (unless a Melges 24 counts).
If I were to infer anything from the dataset Iíd say the best correlation to injury/death is with boat speed. The dataset does have a field for education and experience. Maybe you can make something out of that. Itís not clear to me what it says.

Funny thing about canoeing Ö I rarely wore my lifejacket when I was wilderness tripping. I only put it on when I thought it was necessary. The reason was plain and simple: comfort (or lack thereof). And yes, I ended up in the water more than a few times, but always when I was wearing the lifejacket. I guess this means Iím a decent judge of my own skill level. Of course a truly wise person would have taken the portages in those circumstances .

Ironically, on my sailboat I almost always wear my lifejacket even though Iíve never fallen overboard. The reason: comfort. I wear an inflatable on the sailboat and it is so unobtrusive that it makes sense to have it on. Often times I forget Iím wearing it, and keep it on even when I go ashore (and usually get laughed at).
03-22-2017 02:04 PM
Arcb
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
The data I cite isnít able to show that. It does indicate that canoes/kayaks account for a significant number of deaths (1288) over the datasetís years 2005 to 2015. The number one type of boat death is "Open motorboatĒ at 3601.
I don't think that reflects on education. How many times have you dumped a canoe? I'm thinking I have probably dozens of times (almost always with a PFD and more often than not a helmet too). I have never capsizes my 35' sailboat. Same goes for swamping small stink pots, I'm not sure how many times I've done it, but more than a few times, but I've never swamped a keel boat (unless a Melges 24 counts).
03-22-2017 01:54 PM
MikeOReilly
Re: How "afraid" should we be of sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
But how would it fit in the data, Mike? A dinghy with a motor is a motorboat. Without a motor, what's the classification? Under 16'?

I guess my point is, the above death wouldn't go as a sailing casualty but sailors having accidents while in their dinghy's isn't too rare.
Thatís true Tom. Iím not making a claim either way. Iím just saying I donít think the dataset Iíve pointed to is able to show this. Might be as you say, might not be. Iím sure youíre correct in that there is some number of people injured or killed rowing to/from their sailboat.
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