|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|03-03-2010 09:53 AM|
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
You are completely correct about the 380 being a Morgan. Sails like it too. We even had the tall rig which added even more tenderness to the boat. SHe was fine in a blow, but it took a blow to move her. The similarities between the 380 and the 38 stop at the numbering. I would take a 380 cruising, but anyone who has any interest in performance will not like her.
I had the stern paint raised (I raised all the waterline on the boat), but remember, my boat is loaded down cruising. If it touches the bottom paint at all, it is not much, and this is with a tender, davits, and a full solar arch and panels (Pic to follow). Even in the gale, she had no tendency to broach, where many of the wide-butts do in a following sea. She tracks true (much like a 320) runs smoothly. Again, this is the best sailing Catalina I hve been on.
Regarding storage, maybe I should just tell you that I have two kids and a fat bulldog living aboard on her! I think they could have done better with teh storage, but I personally believe that of all their boats. It is just a function of cost. I added cabintry to over come, but I doubt a couple would ahve to.
SLab versus inmast. Ahhhh... the great debate. I will refrain from the million so of comments I have on that, but I will say that I have been very impressed with the inmast. The safety of staying in the cockpit cannot be overstated. My wife can reef the boat from the cockpit, as can I. There is now no reason to go forward - which I always had to do on my other boats for any number of reasons, including the T's getting stuck in the track, securing down the main for a blow, etc. However, there is a performance loss. Before I took the boat down here, I probably would have traded with anyone for the traditional main. Now, I doubt it. However, it is important to know that my wife would never have lete me trade it! SHe is sold and loves it. I have also noticed (and this is important) that we sail a lot more with teh main than we did on our other boats. Pulling it out is a snap and reefing it is a snap and hardly any more time spent than with a jib. I think even you will end up sailing more with an inmast than a slab. However, for those that love their racing, it is not the right setup.
I suspect that you will like the 400 much better than the 42. It is a much newer design. Do note a few things: 1) there is a MKI and a MKII... but in reality there is also a MKIII (they just do not advertise it). I really think the MKII is the superior boat, with many changes that are huge plusses - not to mention the 54 Yanmar versus Westerbeke. However, about hull #307 or so, they changed the boat. I do not know that they changed the hull, I suspect maybe just a different keel and stringer configuration, but the boat draws 5'4 on the post 307's versus the pre's. I have heard, but cannto confirm, that the post 307's do not point as well or perform as well. That would make sense given the draft changes. If I were going to shop a boat, I would shop a MKII pre 307. The deper bilge can come in handy for storage, water drainage offshore, and if the rumors are true, may perform better too. Just be aware the MKII's before the design mods have a draft of 5'10, not 5'4 as advertised.
Go give the boat a shot. let me know what you think and what hull numer you sailed. You will like it.
PS To the OP, sorry if this was a hijack on your thread. I left it here because the discussion of baots and what we look for (esp given you are considering a Catalina) seemed relevant to the discussion.
Our sail down...
Nice little gale offshore...
Some of the cabintery changes I have made (they are a little hard to see)
How the stern sits in the water....
|03-03-2010 01:44 AM|
|Waltthesalt||Look at the Morgan 30... it's a keel centerboard that may get you into places the other boats won't.|
|03-02-2010 08:02 PM|
Interesting, my Catalina experience is C22 (owned), C28 (owned), C30, C34 (owned), C36, C38, C380, C42 and I took a boat ride on a C470. So now you have me thinking and I need to pay more attention to the C400. As I understand it, the 400 was the first Douglas design in Ft. Lauderdale? I think the 380 series was a Morgan mold that was “Catalinaized”. I like the looks of the 400 out of the water. The
|03-02-2010 08:00 PM|
|GeorgeB||A little more C38 lore: Yes, Frank bought the molds and design for the S&S 38 and actually did more than just slap an interior into it. He also redesigned the rudder, fin, mast and boom in addition to doing a “Catalina” deck layout and interior. He tried to negotiate w/ S&S to use their name in advertising but couldn’t come to an agreement. He actually made it a better boat, not only did he eliminate some of the IOR influenced bad tendencies, he lowered the PHRF number too. His intent was to sponsor the class of boats used in the Congressional Cup, which the C38 was used for many years. It was supplanted by another Catalina design, the C37, but which is not offered commercially. If you like your O34, you’ll love the C38 interior. The 38 is still an IOR boat. Runs to windward like a freight train and squirrelly as all heck down wind. It has one big kite that is a handful when it is blowing in the twenties (I prefer mainsheet trimming on that boat). Another thing, when heeling at a high angle, it has a tendency to siphon water into the cockpit giving the helmsman wet feet! It’s an old boat with a dated interior, and those massive headsails are a bit much if your Mrs. is on the petite side. Fun boat, fun to race, just not what I’m looking for in a family boat.|
|03-02-2010 06:56 PM|
A little question for Brian or any other of you "Cat fanciers" on this forum.....
I do not see much mention of the early 80's Cat 38. That's the heavily-built S&S design, formerly the Yankee 38, that Catalina acquired the tooling and put a new top and interior on and launched them into the bigger yacht market. (Or so the story goes.)
I know two owners in our area and both seem to like them a lot. One of them races it regularly and the other is a cruiser.
Can't say I would recommend one over the faster and stronger Ericson 35 Mk-3, but for a reasonable price the early Catalina (S&S) 38 seems like an offshore capable sort of boat.
We considered it back in the 90's when we were shopping for a big boat, but did not find a clean one... and then we were inclined to want more speed off the wind...
But then, "every thing's a compromise" and "they're all good."
|03-02-2010 04:22 PM|
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
The 400 is very fast (fro a Catalina) and should have no problem outrunning a 42, though I think technically the PHRF on the 42 is a bit better. Let's see, off watch can be done in the aft berth, believe it or not. Even in the seas we were in, the motion was incredibly nice in the aft cabin. You can also rig lee cloths on the port or stbd settee if you want, where the motion is centered. You can use the tie rods to cleat off on. I have found a lot of storage space in the 400, thought I love the garage of the 42. I do not like the sleeping arrangements of the 42, though I like the head accesibility.
All I do is singlehand, for the most part. In fact, I am taking her up to a race this next week in Port Charolotte by myself. I do not fly a symetrical though am starting to shop for a cruising chute. It would be easier to sail it without the cockpit table there, but like all things, there is a tradeoff as the cockpit table is wonderful when you are not sailing. I really like the two wheel system. Other than the redundancy and being able to switch between high and low, it makes for an easy walk through to the transom and very pleasant at anchor.
The 400 is the nicest sailing of any of the catalinas. THe only boat I have enjoyed sailing about as much was the 320. The 400 is very sure footed and has a very gentle motion. The 42, 380 and to some respect the 36 can be tender in the upper teens and lower 20's (though I think the 42 less so maybe than the 380), whereas the 400 has a nice, easy, predicitble motion and very quick acceleration.
The only negative you will find of this design is tha tin tall seas, when going to weather, we tended to jump off the seas and land into the troughs with a 'BOOM'. I have said this before, but we were able to minimize this by slowing the boat down, but would rather have kept her full throttle. It did not hurt the boat, and the seas (in a gale) were not typical, but that was my only complaint. The bottom of the 400 seems flatter than many of the other designs and more like the new Beneteau (like the new 40 they came out with which looks like it almost has an identical bottom shape).
Anyways, I would be very curious of your thougths on the 400 as you have also sailed many other Catalinas. I am always praising the 400's, but the truth is that I have my boat and have no dog in this hunt! I just think it is a great product. Take her out if you can, George, and let me know your thoughts.
|03-02-2010 03:13 PM|
|sailingdog||BTW, there's a really nice Ericson 35-III available... see Maine Sail's thread on it for more info.|
|03-02-2010 01:59 PM|
hat kind of additional information do you want to know about the C34 (and C36)? I have been writing on this subject on several different threads. Use the search function. To clear up a misconception right off is the draft. My C34 is 5’7”, not the 4 ½ that someone mentioned. The biggest issue I have with the 34 in regards to long range cruising is tank size. I have a 25 gal fuel tank that gives me an effective endurance of 36 hours. C34s that cruise Mecico carry additional jerry jugs on deck. I have about 60 gallons of fresh water capacity. For a four person crew in the tropics @1.5 gal per person, that gives you about ten days. If you can do it on a gallon per day, you can stretch to 15 days. Water is pretty precious south of the border and the two friends on 34’s currently in Mexico have Spectra water makers. I wish that the long settee in the main saloon was a bit longer as it is a little cramped for me (6’1”) as a sea berth.
Now, I sail in a little more challenging conditions than a lot of folks, so what is comfortable to me may not be comfortable to everyone. (Getting pooped the first time is a little frightening, the second time is “D***, wet socks for the rest of the day”.) I would have no issue with doing the thorny path down to the Carib. However, I would consider going seaward of the Bahamas and doing it in one or two legs. I know of several C34s that migrate up and down the East Coast, but don’t know any in the Carib (but hey, I’m a West Coast guy)
No offense, but the C400 is another design that I’ve haven’t warmed up to yet. Although they are supposed to be faster than a 42, they aren’t really raced out here. The one that was in the ’08 Pac Cup was pretty slow. But then again, they were using an A-kite and not symmetric, and they really weren’t committed racers. I have issues with the cockpit. Doesn’t the fixed cockpit table and the dual wheel set up inhibit movement in the cockpit? I haven’t figured out how you would single or double hand a kite with the helmsman stuck all the way in the back. The berthing spaces are in the extreme ends. Doesn’t this “force” the off watch crew into sleeping on the galley table (just like my C34)? The walk around berth in the aft stateroom is nice, but doesn’t that rob you of storage space? So I keep telling my wife all of this, but if she had it her way, I’d be writing a check today. She loves it! (And I have to admit, I like the looks of the 400’s profile). One of my dock neighbors has been offering to take us out on his 400, perhaps I should wring one out sometime.
|03-02-2010 01:15 PM|
|chef2sail||We have the smaller version the C&C 35 MKIII with a keel centerboard. C&C tend to be very quick with an advantage to windward ysually due to the design and the inside sail tracks. Our version has a cabin top trvaeler which is not preferred. Lots of storage space for living. Quality joiner work with a blend of wood and fiberglass. Windows are an issue as one the one you looked at. Tender in winds approaching 22 when you must reef, but many other have reefed long before that.|
|03-02-2010 09:56 AM|
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
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