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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > boom hardware questions
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-05-2010 07:44 PM
GeorgeB Yes, the hook should be long enough for both. If the sail "binds" when hooking in the reef, you can easily de-hook the original tack (I used to do this all the time on my o'l 22). You are right, the chainplate/bulkhead issue is a bigge and you want to fix that as soon as you can. You might want to takle that one first, as you may find it easier to de-step the mast so you can rebed/repair all the through deck connections on the shrouds and stays at one time. Which allows you to work on mast and boom horizontally and at waist height. You may have some delay times while wood is drying out and epoxy is setting up. I have to take off my headstay and bullnose sometime this year and re-bed the whole lot. I'm going to time it with a backstay mod, then I can get the whole rig tuned at one time. (inspected too). We all must pay the piper.
03-05-2010 07:29 PM
thebee64 I can use the same hook for the tack and the Reef correct?

I'm going to start another tread for the bulkhead and deck core repair. I read that link to rebedding and that looks pretty straightforward and makes so much sense!

I can't wait to get the boat out, but with that sogginess around the chainplate I'm a little worried about it pulling out. For a temp fix until I get all of the bunks pulled out and the plywood, epoxy and all of the other tidbits to finish the job correctly, I'm going to cut 2 nice size plates out of that 1/8th in SS, secure it to the good sections (it's only the middle that's soft, the rest "looks" good) of the bulkhead and have the hardware for the chainplates secured to the to the SS plates. Granted this is only a short term fix by any means. At least this way I can still get out there and get my feet wet without the boat being down for a month at a time.
03-05-2010 07:00 PM
GeorgeB All you want to do is position the tack hook so that the tack gromet in the sail is the same distance from the mast as the headcard gromet and is the same distance from the boom as the clew gromet. You can orient the tack hook vertically on the boom as the greater pull will be in the hoist (halyard) direction. Don't worry about boltrope chafe as there is not that much movement there. If anything, it will be a little "stiff" to pull outhaul tension. Your chafe problems will start somewhere near the end of your second circumnavigation or around forty thousand sea miles! Now, do your mods & repairs and go sailing!
03-05-2010 01:24 PM
thebee64 Thanks for the tips on riveting. I'll check out Sear's Saterday. Does that mean I'm drilling a 3/16 hole so the rivet fits snug? If I don't patch the holes from the cleat, would I at least put a small drain in the bottom? I know water isn't going to hurt Aluminum, but water siting anywhere can't be good, even if it's just adding weight over time.

Switching gears really quick, I do have a couple of questions about the tack hook and location. Seeing as how my gooseneck doesn't have a provision for a shackle (something must have broke or been replaced as I can't imagine a sailboat builder not putting something simple like a loop to secure the tack) it looks like the best option would be to install a tack hook as GeorgeB suggested. I just want to make sure I get this right as I'm going to tackle it this weekend. The hook would be installed Strb side and I would imagine the idea is to get the hook level with the top of the boom. If the hook isn't inline with the boom and mast, even if it's just offset by an inch or so is there going to be any problems. Should I be worried about Chafe in the boltrope entering the boom (as it would be coming in at a slightly off angle)? Would there any problem with the tack being pulled over in reguards to sail shape? I can't imagine it being too bad as my main isn't great to begin with! Also, would the tack be at a 45 degree angle in relation to the boom or would I just mount it straight up? Thanks for walking me through the simple stuff!
03-04-2010 11:07 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebee64 View Post
Thanks GeorgeB and Sailing Dog,

I'll probably go with 5/16 StaSet as it's instock at my local WM. I'll check with my other local shop to see if they carry it as well though. You guys have really given me a lot of good information and this weekend I'm going to pick up enough to start on the tack, outhaul and downhaul. The reefing line and topping lift will come next week and then the vang last as it's going to put a good strain on the wallet and while it would be nice to have, it's not something that HAS to be done right away. Those bails should work out pretty good. I also have to do some practicing with pop rivets as well. I have some scrap metal. It's about 1/8th SS.

What should I be looking for in a riveter? Would a hand riveter be better to start out? I'm 29 so I'm not worried about the hardship factor, especially when I don't have too many to set. I would imagine that I can find a guide or how to online, but do you have any advice on setting a good rivet? Last thing I would want to do is have a rivet go skipping across the boom leaving it's tell tale little marks!
You can get a good pop rivet tool at Sears that can do the 3/16" stainless steel rivets. If you need to go larger, you probably need to get a pneumatic pop rivet tool.

Quote:
When I pull the boom off to do the work, I'm going to clean it up with some Neverdull. I'll pick up something for the contact points as you suggested as well.

If I want to remove that Cam cleat on the boom, do I just drill the rivet out? What would be the best way to cover the 2 holes left behind? Pop in a couple of rivets? Tin something in to fill the hole? I can't imagine water floating around the boom being a good thing.
Drill the rivet out using a fairly small bit, and slowly work up to the diameter that takes out the rivet's core. You can fill the holes with a little thickened epoxy if you really want to. Water in the boom isn't really much of an issue.

Quote:
If I get the tack, downhaul and Outhaul setup this weekend, I"ll send you a photo of the finished work.

I ended up finding a whole 'nother problem though! I was down in the boat the other day. While I was in the V birth, I noticed my chainplate on the Starboad side didn't look quite right. I poked the wood next to it and it was SOFT. I went online and it looks like it's a common problem espcially with formica covering. Looking at it on both sides, there is no indication that there was any water damage. No stains, rot or anything! That'll teach me for not doing my homework! I found a great response by Jeff_H post 2 and 3 http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...-bulkhead.html on how to go about replacing the bulkheads. I'm not too shabby with wood and epoxy and I have the tools so it shouldn't be too bad at all. It's just going to be time intensive. Luckily there's nothing molded into the boat, all of the cabnietry, bunks, etc are just ply held by screws! I've cleared the port side bunk and it didn't take long at all.

I think I going to do some hunting around for some cost effective parts. CL has been pretty good to me, I've been burned on Ebay before. I completely understand the old adage now. Instead of going with a boat that was in the middle of my budget at the time, I should have streched it that few extra dollars on the 24ft San Juan that had been well taken care of. Not to mention I know that my little boat is never going to recoup the money I put into it. That's not too bad though, as having pride in the fact that I can actually polish this little turd will outweigh the fact that I'll probably have the same amount of money into it, that I bought it for!
03-04-2010 08:52 PM
GeorgeB Argh! I getting a little tired of ripping up your hard earned hundred dollar bills! Unfortunately, old boats tend to have numerous “issues” especially when the DPO (dreaded previous owner) deferred maintenance for a few years. Take some pictures this weekend. It sounds like you have (at least one) leaking chain plate. The chain plate attaches to a rotted bulkhead? Most likely you have rotting in the deck plywood that is sandwiched between the two fiberglass “skins” too. You want to get on this right away. If the deck rot isn’t too bad, you can dig out the rotted wood, dry the rest out and treat with wood penetrating epoxy. Then refill the hole with thickened epoxy, redrill the hole and recaulk while reinstalling the fitting. Rotted bulkheads require removing and replacing. Search for Mainesail’s thread on rebedding deck hardware. It’s a good one. Before you panic, take photos and we’ll get back together on Monday. You might want to start a new thread on this one. Don’t feel too bad, we all throw money at our boats (you do not want to know what I’m putting down on a new lapper!). If you want to take up a cheaper hobby, you might want to consider crystal meth or cocaine addiction.
03-04-2010 07:12 PM
thebee64 Thanks GeorgeB and Sailing Dog,

I'll probably go with 5/16 StaSet as it's instock at my local WM. I'll check with my other local shop to see if they carry it as well though. You guys have really given me a lot of good information and this weekend I'm going to pick up enough to start on the tack, outhaul and downhaul. The reefing line and topping lift will come next week and then the vang last as it's going to put a good strain on the wallet and while it would be nice to have, it's not something that HAS to be done right away. Those bails should work out pretty good. I also have to do some practicing with pop rivets as well. I have some scrap metal. It's about 1/8th SS.

What should I be looking for in a riveter? Would a hand riveter be better to start out? I'm 29 so I'm not worried about the hardship factor, especially when I don't have too many to set. I would imagine that I can find a guide or how to online, but do you have any advice on setting a good rivet? Last thing I would want to do is have a rivet go skipping across the boom leaving it's tell tale little marks!

When I pull the boom off to do the work, I'm going to clean it up with some Neverdull. I'll pick up something for the contact points as you suggested as well.

If I want to remove that Cam cleat on the boom, do I just drill the rivet out? What would be the best way to cover the 2 holes left behind? Pop in a couple of rivets? Tin something in to fill the hole? I can't imagine water floating around the boom being a good thing.

If I get the tack, downhaul and Outhaul setup this weekend, I"ll send you a photo of the finished work.

I ended up finding a whole 'nother problem though! I was down in the boat the other day. While I was in the V birth, I noticed my chainplate on the Starboad side didn't look quite right. I poked the wood next to it and it was SOFT. I went online and it looks like it's a common problem espcially with formica covering. Looking at it on both sides, there is no indication that there was any water damage. No stains, rot or anything! That'll teach me for not doing my homework! I found a great response by Jeff_H post 2 and 3 http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...-bulkhead.html on how to go about replacing the bulkheads. I'm not too shabby with wood and epoxy and I have the tools so it shouldn't be too bad at all. It's just going to be time intensive. Luckily there's nothing molded into the boat, all of the cabnietry, bunks, etc are just ply held by screws! I've cleared the port side bunk and it didn't take long at all.

I think I going to do some hunting around for some cost effective parts. CL has been pretty good to me, I've been burned on Ebay before. I completely understand the old adage now. Instead of going with a boat that was in the middle of my budget at the time, I should have streched it that few extra dollars on the 24ft San Juan that had been well taken care of. Not to mention I know that my little boat is never going to recoup the money I put into it. That's not too bad though, as having pride in the fact that I can actually polish this little turd will outweigh the fact that I'll probably have the same amount of money into it, that I bought it for!
03-04-2010 12:56 PM
GeorgeB Yes, you got it on the run now. At the mast you want to mount a tack hook. You want to work the geometry so the hook spacing matches up with the clew grommet and halyard hole on the head card. I’ve been re-thinking the mounting and you could mount all the hardware except the cleats with stainless steel pop rivets. They are pretty bullet proof, cheap and you won’t worry about pulling out screws in a poorly tapped hole. You may need to buy some longer shank rivets for some of the hardware.

What ever you do, measure multiple times and mock-up! Drill slow and use cutting oil (even in the aluminum) and slow speed – you should get long curls of metal off the drill bit. “Low and slow like a pro and not fast and crass like an a**.” The white residue on your spars is oxidized aluminum which is caused by the galvanic corrosion of dissimilar metals in contact with each other. Use something like Tefgel or Lanacote to liberally coat the contact points between the SS part and the aluminum. You can clean up the excess later. You can even use red locktite in the screw holes.

I calculate your mainsail area to be about 100 square feet, or about half of mine. My reefing line is half inch. Yours will be smaller. You might find the ¼ inch to be on the small side. Try 5/16 or 3/8. It can be any decent Dacron like StaSet. You will want something like SatSet-x for halyards (You could go all the way to Tecnora or Dynema, but now you are into big bucks.)

Outhaul: run the line like it is at the end of boom, over to a small block shackled at the clew, down to a cheek block on the opposite side of the boom and then finished off at a cleat. This will give you the ability to tighten up on the outhaul.

I’ve been rethinking your topping lift. Toppers are helpful in supporting the boom while you reef (that is why the pig tail is so undesirable!) You can tie a 3/16 line at the mast head run it down to the boom end and run it through this block which is shackled to that second hole in the end cap. Look at the Ronstan series 29 with becket and V jam. You will also need a shackle. You can then slacken the “topper” when sailing, support the boom end while reefing and support it while storing the boom between sails.

West Marine: Series 29 Utility Blocks Product Display

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/7629/377%20710/0/tack%20hook/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=tack%20hook&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=tack%20hook&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=448&classNum=449

Now for the Boom Vang. You want to mount a couple of block hangers (aka “bails”. One on the mast above the downhaul cleat (Don’t worry, the downhaul line will pass through the bail. The other one goes on the boom. You want the geometry to be somewhere around a 30 degree angle (check the other boats on your dock). You will need a fiddle block with a cam cleat and another one with a becket. You want at a three or four-to-one purchase.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/5639/377%20710/0/bail/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=bail&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=bail&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=323&classNum=340

These little boom mods, vang and mainsail repair I calculate to be the better part of three hundred bucks. Take your time and shop around. Do you have a local marine consignment store? Shop the internet (and eBay, Craigslist) for bargains. Remember the old adage about the fifty dollar saddle on a ten dollar horse. Good luck, have fun, and enjoy the San Juans!
03-04-2010 03:37 AM
sailingdog Given the size of your boat, any polyester double braid, like StaSet or XLS will work. 5/16 should be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebee64 View Post
I See! So the reefing line goes under the boom through the grommet, forming a loop to secure the reefing line to boom, then it runs up to the "new" clew and then down to the cheek block, and back down the boom, etc. The photo really did help, thanks! To set up a proper reefing system doesn't look like it's going to be too bad. What kind of line should I get for it? Is this something were I need zero strech or would a "crusing" quality line work just as well. I would assume to get the length, I would just mock it all up then measure from the boom to the reefing point to the end of the boom, then add the length of the boom plus a few feet for the loop and enough so that the line will stay slack when not reefed.
03-03-2010 08:35 PM
thebee64 I See! So the reefing line goes under the boom through the grommet, forming a loop to secure the reefing line to boom, then it runs up to the "new" clew and then down to the cheek block, and back down the boom, etc. The photo really did help, thanks! To set up a proper reefing system doesn't look like it's going to be too bad. What kind of line should I get for it? Is this something were I need zero strech or would a "crusing" quality line work just as well. I would assume to get the length, I would just mock it all up then measure from the boom to the reefing point to the end of the boom, then add the length of the boom plus a few feet for the loop and enough so that the line will stay slack when not reefed.
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