|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|03-11-2010 10:02 PM|
Sailing fool and Fasters' method is right on IMHO...And in Brian Tosses Humble opinion as well..One of the premier riggers in the US.
According to his Rigging DVD which I have, there should be Zero flop and no slackness either...Just a noticeable difference in tension.
Oh...And he says you absolutely have to fine tune it under sail...everything else is just a guess.....Even the gage.
FWIW there could be other issues as well such as hull/deck deformation under load which will need to be addressed...I have talked about this in other threads and what Im doing about it on my boat.
|03-11-2010 09:23 PM|
I have a masthead, keel stepped, single spreader, low aspect ratio mast on an old islander. I too had also tried to find the solution to "the mysterious mast and rig tuning" questions by asking professional riggers and long time sailors.
Everybody had a different answer because in the end everybody had experience tuning different boats. So here is mine:
The three riggers I used the first few years were nice guys, and set the rig rather loose each time. I have come to the conclusion riggers see my old boat, do not want to break anything, so everything is a bit loose and they say things like "your not planning on racing anyway, right?" (Little do they know)
After that the light bulb went on and I realized that part of sailing is tuning the rig on your boat the way that works best for you and the boat.
The advise given above is always correct for the boats that the poster is talking about. I would just like to add that having a Loos gauge is a must. As no matter how hard I tried to get tension to match on both sides by counting turns or feel that really only got me within 100-150 lbs off.
Which normally meant I pointed a little higher on one tack then the other.
So I use the Loos and I listen to the boat...
The upper stays are always tight (preloaded to 12% or 1000lbs on oversize wire)
If my lower stays are too loose the mast pumps at the dock in higher winds.
I make the forward lowers a bit tighter then the aft lowers .
If I make some adjustments while acting younger then my age in big winds and the lowers are a little too tight I can't close the head door without it catching on the frame. Which reminds me I should go back off the lowers and that both me and my boat are too old to have this much fun.
I hope you do too..
|03-11-2010 09:29 AM|
|NCC320||Do you really get shock loading when tacking if your leeward shrouds have some slack? If they are reasonably tight at the pier, then the loading has caused some elongation/deflection in the windward shrouds/mast/hull, and when you tack, as the load is taken off one side and applied to the other, there should be a smooth transition because of the elongation/spring effect of the system. If the shrouds are floppy loose at the pier, I could se a real shock problem. If you've had a competant rigger look at it, you should be ok (you might discuss with him what you have experienced with loose leeward shrouds).|
|03-11-2010 09:18 AM|
Setting up your shrouds on a nice 10 knot day works well... but you should only adjust a shroud that's not loaded.
So you need to set up on a particular tack, observe the mast and determine if it's sagging at the spreaders or falling off above.. mid mast sag means your lowers are loose, the top falling off may mean the cap shrouds should come in or, possibly the lower is too tight, pulling the mid mast to windward. In any event decide which shroud adjustment is required but don't do it yet..
Now tack to the opposite tack and adjust the shrouds you just checked as you think best. At the same time observe the mast on the new tack and make the same sort of decision. Tack back, observe the effects and maybe make adjustments on the other side at the same time.
You'll need to go back and forth on this until it looks right on both tacks and you leeward shroulds (at 10 knots) are not sloppy. Keep in mind that you want to keep the masthead centered so large adjustments to the cap shrouds may upset your initial setup of that.
Hunter, btw, with their severely swept spreaders may well recommend that the rig be tight enough that the leeward shrouds do not go slack in even the higher wind strengths. I've seen documentation recently from Selden maintaining that with swept spreaders overall rig tension should be higher, and that the lowers or diagonals should be set last and you need to keep in mind that over-tightening lowers/diagonals will straighten the mast, affecting any desired prebend.
|03-11-2010 02:52 AM|
I agree - there should be no slack in the leeward shrouds. Usually rigs dont have enough tension, and thats probably true in this case also.
Seldén Mast AB
Here is a link to a very good rig tuning guide that covers many different rig types (including the B&R), a step by step tuning guide, a guides to how you measure shroud tension without a loos gauge.
|03-11-2010 01:40 AM|
Just tight enough so that they aren't flopping in the lee. If your deck, hull, spar and rig just don't have the stiffness for this, then you can put shock cord or nylon around each shroud just to decrease the shock loads and work hardening of flopping around.
Flopping is bad because the load spikes dynamically. When you maintain some tension on the rig, the elasticity of the steel stops these load spikes from occurring. Cyclic loading is especially bad on stainless steel as it causes work hardening.
|03-11-2010 12:08 AM|
|mitiempo||It is okay to take some slack out of the lowers when sailing. A turn at a time. You want them just tight enough that the leeward lowers don't flop around. Use a wrench on the outside of the turnbuckle and not in the slot. After, as was posted, be sure to lock them.|
|03-10-2010 11:48 PM|
If you have a B&R rig you can google it. You will find how to tune it. If it's not a B&R rig and you know what kind of rig it is you might find some info on line.
|03-10-2010 08:46 PM|
Owners manual, ha. I have looked at the online version and it seems more of a brochure. I bet that the Hunters manuel does make a point about it as most Hunters don't have back stays I believe. I am not against having another rigging company come out and do it right, but that will be come summer when my paycheck gets a bit more plump. I am considering doing it the way Sailingfool recomended for the time being as I plan to replace the back stay and possibly the port and starboard stays.
Anyone else think that sf's way is not a good idea and possiblly why and or why not to do it one way or another. Also what type of tools do riggers use? I was guessing it was probablly like a torque style wrinch.
|03-10-2010 06:46 PM|
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
Always tension the rig when it is static. Your owners manual should have the proper technique in it.
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