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I have been contemplating the purchase of a children's safety harness's for my kids (3&5). Why shouldn't I have them for the kids? I don't ever recall hearing of discussion good or bad about kids wearing them, so before I make the purchase I wanted to get some real life experience feedback from you...
Our daughter began sailing with us when she was 6 weeks old in a car-seat lashed down in the cockpit. At the point at which she was able to walk, we put her in a lifevest with a harness that allowed her to reach, but not exceed the edges of the combings in the cockpit. Since she started out with this arrangement from the get go, she never had a problem with it, just as putting on a seat-belt in the car became second nature. Today, she and my wife both wear inflatable PFD's aboard ship as they manage the yacht, and harnesses whenever we're off-shore, (as do I) without giving the matter a second thought.
Our first rule aboard the boat has always been "Safety First". Our second rule is "Always hold on to the boat". Our third rule is "Never argue with Daddy". S'worked for 20+ years for me--it'll work for you. (Rule 1 and 2 anyway.)
Our daughter began sailing with us when she was 6 weeks old in a car-seat lashed down in the cockpit. At the point at which she was able to walk, we put her in a lifevest with a harness that allowed her to reach, but not exceed the edges of the combings in the cockpit. Since she started out with this arrangement from the get go, she never had a problem with it, just as putting on a seat-belt in the car became second nature. Today, she and my wife both wear inflatable PFD's aboard ship as they manage the yacht, and harnesses whenever we're off-shore, (as do I) without giving the matter a second thought.
Our first rule aboard the boat has always been "Safety First". Our second rule is "Always hold on to the boat". Our third rule is "Never argue with Daddy". S'worked for 20+ years for me--it'll work for you. (Rule 1 and 2 anyway.)
I always have one attached to my cat. I never want to have the experience of suddenly wondering, WHERE IS HE!?!?!
So, yeah, I can see why it could make a lot of sense to use a tether on small kids. Not necessarily all the time. And not in place of a life jacket. If junior goes over, it's probably best if he floats, tether or not.
The only downside I can see is getting the line tangled up on everything. Could be both a hassle and a danger. And I suppose if kids can strangle themselves on the cords attached to window blinds, no doubt they could do the same with a line tied to a harness.
Hey I'm a lot of help, huh? Bottom line answer is: I'd do it some of the time, depending on conditions and distance from land. In the end, there's always risk.
IMHO, you'd be better off getting the ones that attach to the tether on the back. The reason for this is simple. If they fall overboard and are being dragged face forward, they will likely drown before you can stop the boat. If the harness and tether attach on the back, they will be dragged backwards through the water and there is far less chance of them drowning.
Be aware that a tether and harness does not replace a PFD...
A PFD does not replace a tether and harness either. A PFD is nice to grab the child gone over board, that's all. It does not prevent the child form being drowned. When my son (2) went over board in the harbour (with a Secumar PFD, correct size, but no tether nor harness) he turned face down DUE TO THE BUOYANCY OF THE DIAPERS.
When I complained about that the seller told me I should have read the tag in the inside of the PFD more closely. It says "full performance may not be achieved using certain clothing or in other circumstances".
So I read the tag more closely and found that it is "not compatible with safety harness!" as well.
IMHO, you'd be better off getting the ones that attach to the tether on the back. The reason for this is simple. If they fall overboard and are being dragged face forward, they will likely drown before you can stop the boat. If the harness and tether attach on the back, they will be dragged backwards through the water and there is far less chance of them drowning.
Be aware that a tether and harness does not replace a PFD...
Stop the boat? You don't think Chef could haul a 3 or a 5 year old out of the water if one fell overboard? Especially in the adrenaline-driven heat of the moment? I'll bet he can.
The harness shown would fit under a PFD well I think.
as for the harness does anybody make a pfd for kids with a built in harness, or seen a strong lifting handle a tether could be attached to? doing a harness and a separate pfd seems like it could get annoying to all involved
Crewsaver "Seababy". That's what we use. I wouldn't have a life jacket on boardwithout an integral harness. In this case, the harness attaches to the back, so you can haul the tot back on board by main force if necessary.
Crewsaver "Seababy". That's what we use. I wouldn't have a life jacket on boardwithout an integral harness. In this case, the harness attaches to the back, so you can haul the tot back on board by main force if necessary.
I've also been hoping for Mustang or someone to manufacturer a inflatable PFD, with and without harness? The Mustang rep at the boat show last fall said its in the works...anyone heard any updates?
We dont use them. I am not against them per se, and every parent has to make that decision based upon their child(s) ability to swim, your comfort level with the boat, your rules and location.
We sail in warm waters. Our kids have always been on a boat if not living aboard. They can both swim. However, the standing rule on the boat is the second they come up the companionway, their life jacket has to be on. They cannot go forward without permission (which requires me watching them). In nasty weather, we send them down below.
THat is the system that works for us. Others may feel differently and should act to their comfort level. I will say that we will likely be buying Chase (my oldest) an inflateable with harness soon as our destinations may require him having to go forward with me in less than ideal conditions. However, many of you have no interest in bluewater sailing/passages, and that might be an overkill.
I am not in any way trying to waver anyones opinion. I am only telling you what we do and what works for us.
Brian
PS Mustang it top notch good stuff. If you want a headrest with crotch strap, I would buy nothing else. If your child cannot swim well, I would buy nothing else. For inflateables, we lean to Sospenders with harness, but that is just our preference.
So, we would always have any non-swimmer wear a pfd. Wearing a harness is not a substitute. Case closed.
Harnesses have their place too. But, harnesses can be tricky with some young kids, particularly toddlers. They only work if the individual is clipped in -- yet kids can unclip in a flash. And as another member pointed out, just like at home/on land, there can be a very serious risk of strangulation when toddlers have unsupervised access to chords, lines, etc.
Sometimes that risk is of the accidental kind, other times it is deliberate on the part of the toddler. But it is very real and you only need to go look at the statistics. Toddlers and chords are not a good combination.
Ultimately, there is no substitute for vigilance. Having young kids aboard does add stress for the parents, and neither pfds nor harnesses are a cure-all. But once kids become competent swimmers, and they are at least able to maintain their heads above water while wearing the pfd, the margin of safety does improve. So early swimming lessons are important too.
We've always favored the Mustang pfds for our kids. But that Crewsaver pfd to which Docksaver linked is a very nice unit.
Sensible set of rules. I'd point out that being in the cockpit on most boats requires the wearing of PFDs by children in many states. Only being down below, in the cabin, removes that requirement.
Thanks for the responses, all good. I really appreciate the time spent in discussing the pros and con and all the information.
I think I will buy the one from defender and use it as we feel its needed.
Not that I agree with the MD law, but my understanding is PFD's are not required to be worn on a boat over 21 ft in length?
"Maryland law states that all children under the age of 7 must WEAR a United States Coast Guard approved Personal Flotation Device (life jacket - Type I, II, III or V) while underway on a recreational vessel under 21 feet in length on Maryland waters." Maryland Department of Natural Resources - Boating
I was at a local chandlery here in Vancouver last summer, when the Mustang rep came through, and I had a chance to speak with him (I believe his name was Paul.) I'm a short gal, only 5'1. I had been considering buying a Mustang hydrostatic inflatable lifejacket with integrated harness, but upon reading their owner's manual, was informed that the harness was not authorized for people under 5'5". When I asked the rep he said that it was not Mustang's decision to not make them smaller, but that was what all harnesses in Canada must be rated for, as it was mandated by the Department of Transportation. There are no other options for legal harnesses for those of smaller stature. This information may be incorrect, but it was what I heard. IIRC, it was because the straps of the harness drop too low around the floating ribs, instead of the ribcage proper, resulting in potentially broken ribs, or worse.
Which brings us back to finding a properly fitting harness for kids (small kids are apparently different.) Finding a decent harness may be a challenge for teens and preteens. Something to be aware of, that the harness sits high around their chest, and not drops around their waist.
I was at a local chandlery here in Vancouver last summer, when the Mustang rep came through, and I had a chance to speak with him (I believe his name was Paul.) I'm a short gal, only 5'1. I had been considering buying a Mustang hydrostatic inflatable lifejacket with integrated harness, but upon reading their owner's manual, was informed that the harness was not authorized for people under 5'5". When I asked the rep he said that it was not Mustang's decision to not make them smaller, but that was what all harnesses in Canada must be rated for, as it was mandated by the Department of Transportation. There are no other options for legal harnesses for those of smaller stature. This information may be incorrect, but it was what I heard. IIRC, it was because the straps of the harness drop too low around the floating ribs, instead of the ribcage proper, resulting in potentially broken ribs, or worse. (this is correct)
Which brings us back to finding a properly fitting harness for kids (small kids are apparently different.) Finding a decent harness may be a challenge for teens and preteens. Something to be aware of, that the harness sits high around their chest, and not drops around their waist.
I agree, kids should have them. What I did, since I make my own harnesses, is make an adult harness and adjust it to fit by making folds and sewing to shorten the straps. I can now let it out as my grandson grows so that it always fits him to tee. I sized it so that it fits OVER his pfd.
I agree, kids should have them. What I did, since I make my own harnesses, is make an adult harness and adjust it to fit by making folds and sewing to shorten the straps. I can now let it out as my grandson grows so that it always fits him to tee.
We sail with 3 kids. Rules are, when underway, everyone has a life vest on
( except in the cabin.) The adults had inflatables. With passages,or rough seas, we harnessed in, including the kids, under the lifejacket.
Though we sailed from the time they were babies, we only started using harnesses when we were cruising. The youngest always had a lifejacket on, except when in the cabin. This still holds true until he proves he is a better swimmer. ( he is 7 now).We have started letting him sit in the cockpit without one when at anchor. The older two are teens and now just wear lifejackets when under way ( with protest from them and the captain). We now have inflatables for them to make it easier. Harnesses for rough seas and passages.
I would not trust an inflatable with a younger child. Too many variables.
Get one with the hook on the back, handy in more than one instance.
( Moving from dinghy to boat, rock climbing . My youngest wore one so often it was second nature.
It is best to establish rules that are clear. Be aware that if you wear one as well, you set a good example!
Best wishes. This is just what we have done, Cruisingmom and chief safety officer.
So I purchased two from Defender, after all we're sailing the Chesapeake for now, in most cases I would have them go below in bad weather anyway.
I see some of you saying the harness should be fitted over a PFD, some say under . I suppose the best is to go with what the manufacturer states Does it matter and why?
Under, especially if the PFD is an inflatable.... If it is over the PFD it is too loose and can slide off the body or down on the body and cause injury in use. If it is over an inflatable PFD...and the PFD inflates, it will suffocate the kid by preventing him/her from breathing.
So I purchased two from Defender, after all we're sailing the Chesapeake for now, in most cases I would have them go below in bad weather anyway.
I see some of you saying the harness should be fitted over a PFD, some say under . I suppose the best is to go with what the manufacturer states Does it matter and why?
Let me start by saying I'm not "captain safety"...
... but that I am not speaking from theory or regulations either. I have a thousand days in harnesses and real world experieince with kids, both climbing and sailing.
The main thing with any harness is FIT. The straps on combo harnesses are too low and can cause broken ribs. It's happened.
A harness for a kid must fit well. they have less bone structure and can slidd out. If you think that is a concern on a boat, it is a REAL concern on a cliff. Crotch straps are required.
A small child must be within adult sight at all times.
As for PFDs on larger boat, grand words from the CG and folks that don't summer in hot climates. There is no harness that is not too hot under some circumstances. The answer is responsibility and parenting. Hard rules lead to solutions that don't make sense. I can think of endless OSHA examples.
If it gets nasty, a PFd will go over a kids harness easily - done it many times.
I wish they made an inflatable PFD for kids, or did I miss something somewhere?
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