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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Climbing Rope
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Thread: Climbing Rope Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-06-2010 09:38 PM
Plumbean
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
I've often wondered if Snargs were invented mainly to give ice climbers something else to bash, or to distract themselves from the chunks of ice bouncing off their helmet. Yer a different breed, you guys are.
I've only hung on a Snarg to rest, and that was scary enough! Can't imagine the pucker factor of falling on one of those.
04-06-2010 05:40 PM
bobmcgov
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I do have a newly retired 8.6 mm ice rope that would fit nicely. Since I don't fall leading ice, it only has raps on it .
Obviously. You are alive to testify. I've often wondered if Snargs were invented mainly to give ice climbers something else to bash, or to distract themselves from the chunks of ice bouncing off their helmet. Yer a different breed, you guys are.

One thing about climbing ropes: their loosely-laid nylon cores sponge up a tremendous amount of water, and they allegedly lose quite a lot of strength when saturated -- the ability to elongate quickly & dissipate heat. Is this effect common to all nylon ropes? Is it just factored into anchor rope strength ratings? And do polyester materials experience similar de-rating when they get wet? Or -- since they are effectively static lines -- does it matter less?
04-06-2010 03:06 PM
mintcakekeith A friend of mine who used to work in an outdoor ed centre collect the used ropes and plaited them together into a 300 mtr drag rope for running off in storms ,dont think he ever tried them .K
04-06-2010 01:57 PM
pdqaltair
A shock absorbing traveller - hadn't thought about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post

Another place for it is traveler controls; Beth & Evans use it on their traveler to limit shock loads during jibes.
It wouldn't absorb much, if you have enough purchase; still, my traveller line is getting tatty and I do have a newly retired 8.6 mm ice rope that would fit nicely. Since I don't fall leading ice, it only has raps on it .
04-06-2010 11:43 AM
bobmcgov
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I can tell you to a good degree of engineering precision what stress a gym climbing rope can see. A force of over 500 pounds is nearly impossible to create in a gym because of the design of the facility. Gyms are designed to control the climbing experience and to control the liability of the owner. The use cycles of climbing ropes have been studied to exhaustion and are far better understood than is obvious. Breaking a modern climbing rope is practically unheard of (cutting over a sharp edge is a different manner - that happens rarely) and gym ropes are fatter than the ones used in the mountains.

Can you say a much about the history of an anchor rope that has been through one good storm? Was the anchor rope, when new, subjected to the same QC and research effort that a climbing rope is? Does it contain 12-16 completely independent cores for redundancy and reliability under life-and -death pressure? Climbing ropes are a whole different sort of high-tech cordage and the prices reflect that.

Just something to think about. The whole business of when to retire equipment is quite complicated.

For all to hear, I suggested the use only for boats under 2 tons. They have a very easy hand and are extremely comfortable to work with; however, used is used and they will not work with a windlass.
This. Many climbing gyms do not even offer lead walls, for liability reasons. The forces generated from toprope falls are trivial -- you can catch one on 10mm line with your bare hands, known in the business as a Russian Belay.

The QA and safety factors on climbing equipment are top-notch. Can't really splice kernmantle, as has been noted. But it loses little strength in knotting.

Another place for it is traveler controls; Beth & Evans use it on their traveler to limit shock loads during jibes.
04-05-2010 10:53 PM
pdqaltair
How do we determine the life of a rope?

Serious question, all jousting aside.

An anchor rope on a smallish boat could easily see a 500-pound yank every 10-30 seconds for the 10 hour duration of a front passage. That is 1800 cycles.

A climbing rope in a gym could see 20 x 500 pound falls in a day, or 1800 cycles in 90 days.

We can adjust the numbers; the point is that the order of magnitude is similar. The gym association - there is one - has set an expiration date based upon a very strict standard because a failure will always mean serious injury or worse, but to my knowledge has not seen a fatigue related failure. Clearly, we are not going to retire an anchor rode after one significant blow, not an epic storm at all. The gym rope has not seen salt or UV. Neither has seen strain beyond the SWL. Presumably neither has significant fraying. How do we decide?

My gut and any engineering approach I can reason suggests that the retirement age of a climbing rope from critical service is only a very small fraction of its useful life in other services. A climber may fall a distance, but weighs 6000/150=40 times less than the boat. That is material.

We don't know.
04-05-2010 10:30 PM
pdqaltair
Yup, outdoors is different. Caught a guy taking a 120' whipper years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
PDQAltair—

As a former climber, I'm fairly familiar with modern lines, both sailing and climbing. Most gym climbing ropes are relatively short, since the climbs are somewhat constricted in their height. Most would not be suitable for use as anchor rodes, due to their length.

The longer ropes that might be suitable for anchor rode use are not generally used in an indoor or controlled climbing environment—and they most certainly could have been exposed to loads greater than 500 lbs.
He was a little spooked after that.

Even at that, the load probably never hit much over 1000 pounds, since there was ~ 120 feet of rope out (as you know, forces approach 2500 pounds, but only with a 1.8 fall factor). The knot was not hard to untie, and I was barely lifted from the ground. It was a youngster, not my regular partner, and he thought running it out would be cool, I guess.
04-05-2010 09:38 PM
poopdeckpappy Get enough footage ( of same color ) and make some ratlines
04-05-2010 09:20 PM
sailingdog PDQAltair—

As a former climber, I'm fairly familiar with modern lines, both sailing and climbing. Most gym climbing ropes are relatively short, since the climbs are somewhat constricted in their height. Most would not be suitable for use as anchor rodes, due to their length.

The longer ropes that might be suitable for anchor rode use are not generally used in an indoor or controlled climbing environment—and they most certainly could have been exposed to loads greater than 500 lbs.
04-05-2010 09:03 PM
pdqaltair
You have a good point... but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I wouldn't recommend using USED climbing rope as your anchor line. That strikes me as particularly penny-wise and pound-foolish. You don't know what stresses the rope has been exposed to.
I can tell you to a good degree of engineering precision what stress a gym climbing rope can see. A force of over 500 pounds is nearly impossible to create in a gym because of the design of the facility. Gyms are designed to control the climbing experience and to control the liability of the owner. The use cycles of climbing ropes have been studied to exhaustion and are far better understood than is obvious. Breaking a modern climbing rope is practically unheard of (cutting over a sharp edge is a different manner - that happens rarely) and gym ropes are fatter than the ones used in the mountains.

Can you say a much about the history of an anchor rope that has been through one good storm? Was the anchor rope, when new, subjected to the same QC and research effort that a climbing rope is? Does it contain 12-16 completely independent cores for redundancy and reliability under life-and -death pressure? Climbing ropes are a whole different sort of high-tech cordage and the prices reflect that.

Just something to think about. The whole business of when to retire equipment is quite complicated.

For all to hear, I suggested the use only for boats under 2 tons. They have a very easy hand and are extremely comfortable to work with; however, used is used and they will not work with a windlass.
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