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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Need Advice
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-14-2011 09:22 AM
TQA 5 year old thread
06-13-2011 11:00 PM
WDS123 Dinghy - lido 14 in your area new $7-10k, used $2k- free, try craigslist or lido14.org and look up the fleet closest to you.


But if you insist on a keelboat, try a Santana 20, Santana 22, or Sanatan 525- these are popular in the PNW and usually can be had for less than $5k. There are active 20 fleets in your area, many boats and strong support.

The Santana 525 has an active BC fleet.

The Santana 22 has a very active and supporting series of fleets in the bay area
06-13-2011 10:32 PM
windstrider
Cut the crap

Ok I hear this from monohull sailors all the time, "its better to learn to sail on a monohull versus multihull," and all I have to say to that is BULL! Of course monohull sailors are going to say its best to learn on a monohull as they are biased toward monohulls. Learning to sail on a monohull is not going to make you good at sailing a multihull. If you are going to sail a multihull then learn to sail on a multihull. As for learning on small sailboats first I agree however learning to sail on a Laser or Hobie 16 (monohull versus multihull) is all good. Again look at your interests and if you will be sailing mostly on a monohull or multihull. Most sailing skills learned on a sailboat with one, two, or three hulls apply equally on any sailboat design. So let’s cut the crap and loose our biases on how many hulls a sailboat has. Also there are many great sailing schools and great individual instructors that are not accredited with any particular sailing organization. Do a search in your local market for instructors/sailing schools regardless if it is accredited or not. Also on positive for US Sailing, individual instructors that teach small boat sailing can be accredited without owning or belonging to a certified sailing school but with the ASA this is not the case…
04-29-2006 10:41 PM
sailingdog Inboards are a bit better in bad weather, as a general rule, as the prop is better able to stay in the water... but they are more expenisve and more difficult to maintain in many cases. OUtboards, are cheaper, easily replaced/repaired, but not so good in bad weather. Most inboard engines are diesel, which is considerable more fuel efficient and safer, as diesel is far less volatile than gasoline. Most outboards, with the exception of two Yanmar models, are gasoline-fueled.
04-28-2006 07:23 AM
micetic
Gas or Diesel and another Boat Question

In terms of gas vs. diesel is there a weight and/or size difference between the two? Does one weigh considerably less than the other or take up much less room below deck? I know in the automotive sector, there are not big differences but I am unaware if that is also true for marine motors.

Also back to the boat theme, is it more beneficail in your opinion to learn sailing on a newer boat or something that needs a little work done to it. I have experiance restoring cars, so mechanically I am adept. Would working on and experiancing the boat first hand through work be extra valuable that it would be worth getting something that is a little rougher? From the boats that have been recommend so far, I think I like the Pearson Triton 28' the best. I have done some research and found out that there was an east and west coast build, the east being balsa cored and the west coast being solid glass. Which is better?

Thanks,
Matthew
04-27-2006 02:22 PM
genephares go take sailing lessons from an accredited school like ASA!
04-27-2006 02:05 PM
Jim H
Quote:
Originally Posted by micetic
A follow-up question concerning the motor, would you have any preference of diesel over gasoline, or vice versa? I imagine a diesel would be better suited but I am obviously inexperienced and can use all the advice I can get.
In general, the recommendations given to me were that the inboard diesel was more reliable in rough conditions (can pretty much run submerged, in some cases), uses less fuel, and uses fuel that is less flammable in terms of vapors in the bilge. It's been awhile since sailboats have been sold with gas inboards, so there's also a resale issue in that some buyers will only consider an inboard diesel.

As I understand it, the disadvantage of diesels is that they can run rougher with a lot more vibration (especially the one cylinders), they normally have less horsepower than gas inboards (in boats of the size range you mention), they have more expensive parts to replace (injector pumps, etc.), and some brands are hard/expensive to find parts for (older Farymann models, for example).

With all this advice, I still ended up with an Atomic 4 gas inboard in my first sailboat with an inboard engine (C&C 27). So far, I've had the following advice and experiences.

The surveyor noted that Atomic 4s can be either the best or worst engines, depending on how they've been cared for. If well cared for, they run smooth and strong and reliably, although they can chow down as much as a gallon of gas an hour. It is a 30 hp, which is more than enough for my 27 footer-- in fact, I've yet to go over half throttle. My dockmate is envious of this, given his smaller diesel. He's also envious of the the much more simplistic design and maintenace of the engine.

Couple other advantages-- the initial cost of the boat was lower, I have complete manuals, and parts and online advice for service and repairs are easy to find. I'm confident that this engine will be worth repairing and maintaining for the years I own the boat, even though it is older. One does have to be more aware and careful with the fuel tank and system, and run the blower before starting, but my boat has no gas smell below decks and one shouldn't simply ignore diesel leaks either.

Anyway, I would have liked the challenge of a diesel, and more hours per tank of fuel, but this gas engine is working out fine for a first inboard boat that will see very limited off-shore hops. I also love the simplicity and the extra hp when I need it.

One last warning: the condition of an inboard engine can easily be overlooked during the buying process. Simply having it fire up and run isn't good enough. You normally need to pay more to have any engine fully assessed, often times by someone who is an engine specialist. What first-time buyers don't realize is that repowering a gas or diesel boat with a new or rebuilt inboard engine can be a tremendous cost, equaling or exceeding the purchase price of a smaller boat. And, of course, putting a $10k engine into a boat you paid $10k for does not lead to a boat that is worth $20k.

Good luck!

Jim H
04-27-2006 01:00 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by micetic
So let me be sure I got this right, for a boat the size I would like (26’-30’), an outboard would not really be appropriate.

A follow-up question concerning the motor, would you have any preference of diesel over gasoline, or vice versa? I imagine a diesel would be better suited but I am obviously inexperienced and can use all the advice I can get.

Thanks,
Matthew
There is nothing wrong with using an outboard for a boat in this size range..but it would have to be mounted in such a way that it can provide power under the worst conditions, as that is when you generally want/need the power most. In most cases, a transom-hung outboard isn't going to work in rough conditions, as the prop will come out of the water as the boat pitches. An inboard, outboard motor well is really the only good solution on a monohull. On a multihull, they often can mount the outboard to a pod or crossbeam, so that the outboard is closer to the center of movement and less likely to be lifted from the water in bad conditions.

As for engines, there are three choices... a diesel outboard, which is not a choice in the United States, and they're quite expensive and rather noisy; an two-stroke gasoline outboard, which is not optimal, since it is fairly noisy and also very inefficient in terms of fuel usage; or a four-stroke gasoline outboard, which is probably the best choice, although a bit more expensive than the two stroke, it is far quieter and far more fuel efficient.
04-27-2006 10:10 AM
micetic So let me be sure I got this right, for a boat the size I would like (26’-30’), an outboard would not really be appropriate.

A follow-up question concerning the motor, would you have any preference of diesel over gasoline, or vice versa? I imagine a diesel would be better suited but I am obviously inexperienced and can use all the advice I can get.

Thanks,
Matthew
04-27-2006 12:05 AM
sailingdog Actually, Yanmar makes two Diesel outboard motors. They are not available in the USA, but they are available. Outboard wells are rarely well-designed, and often are more trouble than they are worth.
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