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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail > Engineless?
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Thread: Engineless? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-15-2013 09:04 PM
limpyweta
Re: Engineless?

Adam,

About getting out of a leeward slip, first, Jay Fitzgerald's book covers this. It's best to head out when one knows there's a calm. If it's 5 am with signs of the wind picking up later, then do it at 5 am. It helps to learn a lot about the weather and all the ways to forecast it for the given area and pricerange.

I've been in this situation on an engineless C&C 27, as a part of Sail Transport Company, which was in the works in Puget Sound a few years ago. The boat's flipped around in the early morning before the wind picks up so the bow faces out. This helps with someone on tiller as one or two on the dock bobsled her out of the slip by the stanchions and pull on the bow and stern with a couple lines, with each line around a dock cleat in the process. There was like a 15 knot southerly in the main channel of Puget Sound, and the slip opened to the south in Shilshole Bay Marina. The mainsail was set, but I don't remember how reefed it was. There was a self-casting line secured to the port bow cleat that looped around the cleat at the end of the dock across the channel between docks in the marina, so like 50 feet one way, 100 ft loop. In between puffs, one would haul that bow line as the other was on main and tiller, didn't take much muscle or a winch or handy billy, and when the bow was far enough out for the main to drive her forward in time, the casting line did it's job, and I think the loop was then pulled the other way. I guess this would really depend on the friction and shape of the cleat or piling, the angle of the loop, and the friction of the line. I don't remember if she had that yuloh sculling oar on her yet.
05-27-2010 12:59 PM
AdamLein
Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
I dock under sail all the time. However, I tend to do so on a run in light winds.
What's your dock arrangement, and what sail do you have up when you do it?
05-27-2010 10:44 AM
LuckyDollar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I would love to get to the point where I can tag my mooring ball without power but I am not there yet. "
In my first sailing lessons, in Solings, we tagged the mooring ball perfectly at the end of the first day, first time. So the instructor says ok, that was too easy, let it go and let's do it again. I think "again" took a good half hour to happen.

An engine is like an attack dog. As long as it obeys perfectly, it can be a very good thing to have around.
I love it when everything just works out right, but it is that consistency that I worry about.
05-26-2010 10:40 PM
dnf777
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
Ed -

While I'm here, I am really paranoid about gas inboards. I would rather have an outboard if I couldn't afford a diesel.
Fair winds.
Made me chuckle. I agree, but grew up on I/O gas motorboats, that warned to always vent the compartment with the "sparkless" fans prior to starting if the boat sat more than 30 minutes. Ok, so how bout 29 minutes?

My friends would always laugh at me when I would say, "nice knowin' ya" each time before turning the key. Always worried it was going to be a scene out of Miami Vice.
05-26-2010 10:22 PM
hellosailor "I would love to get to the point where I can tag my mooring ball without power but I am not there yet. "
In my first sailing lessons, in Solings, we tagged the mooring ball perfectly at the end of the first day, first time. So the instructor says ok, that was too easy, let it go and let's do it again. I think "again" took a good half hour to happen.

An engine is like an attack dog. As long as it obeys perfectly, it can be a very good thing to have around.
05-26-2010 06:21 PM
tager I dock under sail all the time. However, I tend to do so on a run in light winds. This is typical for my dock. Leaving the dock under sail would be impossible for me. I have been considering getting a 12' sweep just to experiment but have yet to do so.
05-26-2010 05:50 PM
LuckyDollar
If it were me...

I have a 22' sailboat that I am restoring which does not have power, and I get a bit worried at the thought of sailing without power. I think its all in your confidence level. If it were me at this stage in my life I would not do it (and I would replace the atomic 4 with a diesel engine). I would love to get to the point where I can tag my mooring ball without power but I am not there yet. Overall the technique to sailing a boat without power can be different at times and you should gauge your abilities to do things like moor/dock under sail. Best of luck.

22' Sailmaster Sailboat Restoration
05-24-2010 03:53 PM
Sailormon6
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
"I found that you don't need a full gale to sail under bare poles. You can do it, even in moderate winds. Also, under favorable circumstances (especially in smooth water), you can even tack to windward to a certain extent, although it obviously takes patience"

Sailormon, you've piqued my interest with this one. How do I tack to windward with bare poles? I'm a *"Motor? We don't need no stinkin' motor!"* kind of guy, but even so hadn't considered the above possible. From what do you get the kind of lift to take you upwind? The mast? the hull shape?

'Splain please?
I'm assuming it works the same way that it works when you use sails to sail to windward. Wind on the side of the hull provides the driving force, the keel provides lateral resistance, and the boat slides forward, in the direction of the least resistance. The wind pressure on the hull is fairly equally distributed fore and aft, so it's similar to having a balanced sailplan in that respect. The wind on the bow is trying to push the bow to leeward, and that is countered by the wind on the stern, which is holding the bow toward the wind. It obviously helps to have all the conditions in your favor, including smooth water and a clean, slippery bottom and keel, and it also helps if the boat has a little momentum to begin with.

I don't blame you if you're a little skeptical. I was stunned the first time I did it.
05-24-2010 12:12 PM
nolatom "I found that you don't need a full gale to sail under bare poles. You can do it, even in moderate winds. Also, under favorable circumstances (especially in smooth water), you can even tack to windward to a certain extent, although it obviously takes patience"

Sailormon, you've piqued my interest with this one. How do I tack to windward with bare poles? I'm a *"Motor? We don't need no stinkin' motor!"* kind of guy, but even so hadn't considered the above possible. From what do you get the kind of lift to take you upwind? The mast? the hull shape?

'Splain please?
05-24-2010 11:46 AM
dieselox I agree with all comments about sailing across shipping lanes. I was always conservative to a fault regarding anything slightly questionable. Two points about sailing with no engine: 1) you really need to study local conditions (tides, currents, shipping lanes, everything else) 2) sailing with no motor, you learn real fast.

The hard part is knowing your own limitations. I crewed for a skipper who thought he could sail well, but repeatedly stopped his boat head to wind through sheer incompetence, a lack of feel on the helm. He'd taken many sailing classes, but somehow just couldn't grasp the basics. That's when you're most dangerous.

We had no trouble sailing under jib alone on a beam reach back into our down wind slip. On really windy days, we'd douse the jib before the turn, to keep all the sheets clear of the dock. The main on a Folkboat typically has no reef points; letting the main down part way drops the boom in your lap.
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