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Thread: Why are there so many Hunter haters? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10 Hours Ago 07:00 PM
outbound What's neglected in many of these threads is the huge variance in design and execution within specific boats of a brand.
Also think it would be much more informative for owners to honestly critique the deficiencies of their own boats and the work arounds than base their egos on defending them.
There is an Outbound yahoo group. Much less BS there.
12 Hours Ago 04:55 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

It's not a question of acknowledging differences in design & quality, it's about the (usually ignorant) trash talk.

It's more akin to those Lexus drivers talking about what a cheap and dangerous P.O.S. your Honda is.

Obviously assembly line boats are not the same as expensive hand built boats and only a fool would regard them as equal. Where I and some others here, who actually have first hand knowledge, have a problem is when posters put out trite, recycled trash talk, that bears little or no resemblance to fact, as knowledgeable commentary.

A perfect example of this is in regard to the compression posts on 31's like mine. If you look around the Interweb you will find that the compression post is a major and serious problem with these boats - they rot and the deck collapses - it's just common knowledge.

However, if you read posts by actual owners past & present of these boats you will have difficulty finding any evidence of such problems.

My boat is early production ('84) was badly neglected - left swinging on a mooring basically unattended for several years - and has absolutely no sign of a post problem. The cabin sole rotted from the neglect but the "known problem" compression post is just fine.

We all know the Interweb is loaded with cr@p posted by ignoramuses so it's up to those of us who know the truth of specific things to call them on it, point out the cr@p when we find it and counter it with facts.
13 Hours Ago 03:40 PM
amwbox
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
For daysailing in sight of land, they are adequate, the swept back rigs are easier in gusts and they have cavernous interiors, which at the slip in the marina, make them far more comfortable.

Most "production" boat builders, made compromises for the mass markets, getting cost out of the boats and that showed up in build quality, and durability over successive generations of construction from the 60's onwards. Some of that was materials equipment and fittings, some of it was technique, some of it was undersized scantlings.Many of those flaws are not fixable. Some like blisters and saturated cores are a gift that keeps on giving.

If your expected use is casual sailing, and sleeping in a slip, then buy one those features. If you want to be able to handle an offshore passage, be comfortable on deck and below while doing so in a breeze, you might seek other designs and builders.



Pretty much says that very thing. What isn't specifically said is certainly implied.
I suppose the implications will have to be a matter of interpretation. He's actually correct on some points there. For example, we haven't moved to hull grid liners and chopper guns because it results in superior construction from an engineering standpoint...we've done it because its more cost effective and obviously much faster. Its not the end of the world. Even Pacific Seacraft is using hull liners.

That's just good business. You cut costs where you can and try to undermine the competition on price.

Are we really arguing that it simply doesn't matter how a boat is constructed, what hull form was used, what sort of motion and seakeeping we can expect? Its all just irrelevancy that used to prop up some sort of boater ideology?

I'm not arguing the inferiority or superiority of whatever brands. I'm not arguing the lesser or greater expense involved in particular boats. I'm simply pointing out the very real differences between things that really are different. I drive my little fuel sipping Honda to work every day, and I often smirk at the expense people put into their various Lexus and BMW cars. (Money better dumped into my hole in the water, in my view.) But I don't try to tell myself that my Honda is an equal to that Lexus simply because we both made it to work. Its not about the branding, its about the very real differences between the two very different machines, regardless of who built them. If Hunter or Catalina or Beneteau built their own version of a Pearson Triton tomorrow, to the same level...I'd be extremely interested. I really don't care about the nameplate.

I don't understand why its so blasphemous to acknowledge differences between boats. Its a gigantic boat discussion controversy that's been raging for years.

That said, I don't deny the stink of snobbery in that post.
13 Hours Ago 03:16 PM
guitarguy56
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amwbox View Post
I didn't hear anyone say anything so extreme.
Quote:
From nhsail: It's your boat, and you can and should defend it to the death, which if you take many of the lower end boats out a few days, might be rather quick. If I wanted a weekend floating cottage then a hunter or beneteau would be prime choices...
Not much to add to such vitrio....
14 Hours Ago 02:53 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amwbox View Post
I didn't hear anyone say anything so extreme.
For daysailing in sight of land, they are adequate, the swept back rigs are easier in gusts and they have cavernous interiors, which at the slip in the marina, make them far more comfortable.

Most "production" boat builders, made compromises for the mass markets, getting cost out of the boats and that showed up in build quality, and durability over successive generations of construction from the 60's onwards. Some of that was materials equipment and fittings, some of it was technique, some of it was undersized scantlings.Many of those flaws are not fixable. Some like blisters and saturated cores are a gift that keeps on giving.

If your expected use is casual sailing, and sleeping in a slip, then buy one those features. If you want to be able to handle an offshore passage, be comfortable on deck and below while doing so in a breeze, you might seek other designs and builders.



Pretty much says that very thing. What isn't specifically said is certainly implied.
16 Hours Ago 01:08 PM
amwbox
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
Ya think? Of course Mr. Hatred thinks they're only good for slip condos/cottages on the water... unsafe to take out unless seas are flat and close to shore in sight of land otherwise one's demise is assured! The worse nonsense I heard in quite a while!
I didn't hear anyone say anything so extreme. Personally, having spent some time on some very different boats, I'd prefer a very different hull, cockpit, cabin and rig setup offshore than what La Vagabonde offers...not so much for safety but for a myriad of other factors which are also very important. At least to me. I tend to prefer the motion and tracking of heavier boats. If others are happy with the trade-off for a bit of extra speed (such as it is. These are sailboats, not jet skis) and close-windedness...its really none of my business.

That said, if that girl was along for the ride I'd very happily sail a bathtub rigged with two hockey sticks and a blue tarp offshore.
16 Hours Ago 12:55 PM
guitarguy56
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amwbox View Post
That boat is I believe a 45 footer. At that size, the brand honestly shouldn't matter too much.
Ya think? Of course Mr. Hatred thinks they're only good for slip condos/cottages on the water... unsafe to take out unless seas are flat and close to shore in sight of land otherwise one's demise is assured! The worse nonsense I heard in quite a while!
16 Hours Ago 12:28 PM
amwbox
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

I follow that channel, too. They actually started in the Med.

That boat is I believe a 45 footer. At that size, the brand honestly shouldn't matter too much.
16 Hours Ago 12:11 PM
guitarguy56
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

I've been following a young couple from Australia on a Beneteau (or Hunter take your pick) boat of which you speak that can't sail beyond a small wake or mirror seas (because the death involved as you mention) and YET these two young kids not only sailed from Australia to the Med, then across the Atlantic to the Caribbean Islands from Bahamas straight thru to the South America and thru the Panama Canal and now on to the Marquesas to South Polynesian Islands... all on a boat not much different in build quality of the Hunters... and YET you spew hatred and really childish nonsense. Now tell us on your old ugly Hinckley (some say classic boat... I say ugly should be retired to scrap boat that's MY OPINION!) where have you travelled? Tell us of the Atlantic/Pacific crossings you've done on your marvelous vessel? Show us the YouTube videos and or other examples of your grand adventures on your better than ours sailboat?

Yes many of the boats we own are not ocean crossers at least not my H28... Not sure about Smacks Hunter but I bet you it'll take the beating and get there not much different than La Vagabond's Beneteau (you know just like the Hunter quality)...

17 Hours Ago 11:48 AM
SloopJonB
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Nothing defensive about it, just injecting a little fact, truth & realism into all the trite Interweb bull$**** you've been repeating.

I have the very strong feeling you've never sailed or likely even been on a Hunter or you would actually know something about which you speak rather than just spouting the same old same old.

You sound much like many European car enthusiasts who talk about what junk Corvettes are - while they get blown off by them at such places as the Nurburgring.

Food for thought - assuming Smacks PHRF numbers are correct, my old 31 is as fast or faster than your Hinckley. No of course it isn't remotely the same quality of build or as good looking (to my eye) but I'll get there just as fast as you and in as much comfort as well - for less money than you spent on the sales tax for yours.
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