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  Topic Review (Newest First)
5 Days Ago 12:30 PM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Would not a boat with less windage and a higher aspect ratio keel (just about every other sailboat in the world) be able to make some VMG
I would say yes but in the conditions we are talking about where you do not get the necessary drive without the main you are going to be closer to being beam on to the waves and if the wave breaks at the right moment it can be very dangerous.
5 Days Ago 11:59 AM
Panope
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleemus View Post
You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
That is my belief too.
I do not have enough experience to make a credible rebuttal to the above statement. However, I was able to make a 90 degree tacks (course over ground, GPS verified) under an itsy bitsy, storm jib.

My boat features a shallow draft, full keel and a pilot house. Would not a boat with less windage and a higher aspect ratio keel (just about every other sailboat in the world) be able to make some VMG to weather?

Steve

Three points of sail depicted: close reach, beam reach, broad reach.
5 Days Ago 03:52 AM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleemus View Post
You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.
That is my belief too.
5 Days Ago 03:48 AM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
That sounds brutal!
It certainly was and being the bowman I was in peril of drowning while on the rail. The rear guard also got 'smacked' a couple of times when green water from a breaking waves were caught by the reefed main and funneled into the cockpit. When we turned and ran we got the boat, a 34 foot mono, up to 14.9kts. I fondly remember it as 'the beat from hell'.
5 Days Ago 08:32 PM
Bleemus
Big Freakin' Sails

I only saw the video of the guy reaching with jib only. Making Vmg in 50 knots with storm jib and triple reef might be one or two knots on a 40 footer with good sailors and good helmsman. An inexperienced cruising couple would be going backwards for sure. With only a jib it would be a negative number no matter who is sailing. Boat totally unbalanced and making lots of leeway.


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5 Days Ago 07:35 PM
Shockwave Bleems, you think it's actually making any upwind VMG in 50 knots with that sail plan?
5 Days Ago 07:30 PM
Bleemus
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
It would appear to me also that the sailors in the first video did go out to test themselves. From the footage it appears they might have gotten in the heavier seas for a wee while before going to a more sheltered area where most of the video was shot.



When beating into those types of conditions and beating I think having the main out can be good so the boat can be driven up. Hard to do with just the headsail. I think it can be dangerous to have the main up when running but my previous discussion was concerning sailing to windward.



The video just posted is more like the sea state I remember being in when sailing in 50+ kts. As I said I have beaten into it but typically we usually run off if we can. Another one of the times beating into those conditions for 6 hours before turning and running my fingers and toes were tingling for 3 months after the race. It was about 3 degrees out on the water so it was a typical Scottish summer day.

You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.


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5 Days Ago 06:52 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Beating into a "Scottish summer day" for 6 hours - you definitely have my respect Scott! That sounds brutal!

As you say, I'd much rather run.
5 Days Ago 03:59 PM
ScottUK
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Yeah - "knockdown" is definitely an overstatement. At about 2:48 he gets hit by a good gust that lays him over pretty good and puts the rail in the water. He turns the camera to himself to show his reaction. It was another reason I think he just has too much sail out for the conditions (if you're just sailing, not racing) - and is on a harsh point of sail (not running off).

Of course, it looks to me like he intentionally went out in the stink to do some "practicing". And he seemed to do pretty well. So I've got to give him some cred. Few people are willing to do that. It's funny, but from the cockpit shots the headsail looks to have a much better shape than in the top-down shots.

But to your question about the main, judging by the boat's reaction to that big gust, if you added even a triple-reefed main to that headsail on that point of sail, you'd be way over-canvassed I think. I sailed in 40-45 with just a reefed main on my Catalina 27 (no headsail). We were on a beam reach and it was a little scary. Lots of shuddering with the rig.

Here is the other video I was talking about. This guy is in much rougher conditions with the same general sail configuration, but is much more comfortable and the boat far less stressed. The conditions are touching F11:

http://youtu.be/lYSdOfcPiFE
It would appear to me also that the sailors in the first video did go out to test themselves. From the footage it appears they might have gotten in the heavier seas for a wee while before going to a more sheltered area where most of the video was shot.

When beating into those types of conditions and beating I think having the main out can be good so the boat can be driven up. Hard to do with just the headsail. I think it can be dangerous to have the main up when running but my previous discussion was concerning sailing to windward.

The video just posted is more like the sea state I remember being in when sailing in 50+ kts. As I said I have beaten into it but typically we usually run off if we can. Another one of the times beating into those conditions for 6 hours before turning and running my fingers and toes were tingling for 3 months after the race. It was about 3 degrees out on the water so it was a typical Scottish summer day.
5 Days Ago 02:15 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Big Freakin' Sails

Yeah - "knockdown" is definitely an overstatement. At about 2:48 he gets hit by a good gust that lays him over pretty good and puts the rail in the water. He turns the camera to himself to show his reaction. It was another reason I think he just has too much sail out for the conditions (if you're just sailing, not racing) - and is on a harsh point of sail (not running off).

Of course, it looks to me like he intentionally went out in the stink to do some "practicing". And he seemed to do pretty well. So I've got to give him some cred. Few people are willing to do that. It's funny, but from the cockpit shots the headsail looks to have a much better shape than in the top-down shots.

But to your question about the main, judging by the boat's reaction to that big gust, if you added even a triple-reefed main to that headsail on that point of sail, you'd be way over-canvassed I think. I sailed in 40-45 with just a reefed main on my Catalina 27 (no headsail). We were on a beam reach and it was a little scary. Lots of shuddering with the rig.

Here is the other video I was talking about. This guy is in much rougher conditions with the same general sail configuration, but is much more comfortable and the boat far less stressed. The conditions are touching F11:

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