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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Running rigging for my boom...
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Thread: Running rigging for my boom... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-14-2010 04:31 PM
zz4gta On my outhaul I have 4:1 that uses one eye strap to anchor both purchases. So it sees 1/2 the load of the actual outhaul at the clew. I've used 3/16 SS pop rivets and its held in 25-27 kts racing conditions w/ 5 people on the rail. Haven't had it out in more than that yet.
09-14-2010 02:48 PM
serenespeed A couple of follow-up questions...

I had a chance to use the second reef point in my main two weekends ago (amazing how a 26' boat can still feel safe in 30+knots). I use a tack hook on the boom for the luff of the sail. On my first reef, the clew line runs from a rinky-dink little cleat on the port side at the aft end of the boom through the clew and down to a (well worn, loose and chipped) block on a slider track on the starboard side. This is nice because when I use the first reef the sail flakes nicely to port side and the reefing line does not chafe the sail. For the second reef point, I tied a line on a second block on the slider track, wraped it under the boom and through the second reefing clew back down to the block to be tightened. This worked 'okay' but when it was all tightened down, the clew was sitting on my tightly crumpled main sail. I felt bad doing that to my main.
It seems to me that if I run the second reefing line from the aft end of the boom, then the sail would not bunch up under the clew and I could pull it tight right down to the boom.
The majority of the advice I've gotten/read about, is to tie a bowline around the boom (or to the becket/block on the other side). So, does this mean that when you reef your main, the sail is crumpled up under the clew?
I've bought a used (but in excellent condition) main sail for our boat. I haven't used it yet, but it's so crisp and nice compared to what we have now that I can't imagine crumpling it up under the clew, especially in high winds, i.e high chafe. It also does not have gromets to tie the reefing line to the boom (it has a bolt rope in the foot).
I'm leaning toward running both reefing lines from the end of the boom, through the clews and down to blocks - I'm looking for someone to tell me that this is a bad idea, in-case I've overlooked something...

Next question; I can attach the new hardware to the end of the boom with bolts and nuts on the inside of the boom by taking the end cap off to gain access. But, What about the hardware toward the middle of the boom? Should I use SS rivets, or drill and tap? How thick should the boom be - at a minimum - for me to consider tapping for fasteners?
I've abandoned the idea of running the lines aft in favor of setting up a proper outhaul and safe slab reefing system. Harken recomends 40mm Carbo cheek blocks and H137 eyestraps. For the cheek blocks, can two 3/16th SS rivets or two tapped bolts really support the forces of reefing lines and an outhaul?
Would two 1/4 inch SS rivets holding the H137 eye strap be able to hold the forces to secure the ends of reefing and outhaul lines?

Thanks again for your time!
08-12-2010 01:49 AM
sailingdog I generally like having a topping lift the same diameter as the main halyard, so that it can be used as a backup main halyard.
08-11-2010 08:31 PM
zz4gta http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|311417|314168&id=33532
That kit will get you pretty well into you're splicing needs. If you can find one with polished fids, those are better but harder to find. The real small stuff, 1/4" or less, is really hard to splice depending on how tight the cover is. For 1/8" stuff I just tape the end of the line into a point and push it through. Well, that's for another thread.

In the kit I print out other splicing techniques and stick them in the tube with the fids, pusher, etc. Along w/ a sharpie and a lighter to burn ends until you have a chance to whip them.
08-11-2010 04:09 PM
serenespeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorice View Post
Not sure how much you've read or how experienced you are.
I grew up on Albergs and Hughes', but that was 15 or so years ago and I was too young to notice the technical things. But I'm back and starting to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorice View Post
Have you seen this - a lot of useful ideas to get you started.
Harken Tech Corner
sam :-)
^^^ I had not seen that yet - that's a great start!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
[...]do you know how to splice?
Not yet, but I'd like to learn. Is there a set of fids and other tools that will work with all types of line, or do I need a different set for each type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Yes, you can use a cheek block.
I had a setup like this (without the blocks - just from an eye strap, through the clew and tied to a cleat):

It held the clew pretty well in the center, but the eye strap that was holding the outhaul line ripped off the end of the boom in the first big gust we hadÖ It was riveted on, should it have been through bolted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Why not run the topping lift from the end of the boom, where it attaches to the boom using a shackle, up to a block near the top of the mast, and then down to the mast baseóand possibly back to the cockpit. This would give you a proper topping lift and also allow you to use the topping lift as a backup main halyard in a pinch.
I actually have a block mounted at the top of the mast with a messenger line through it (completely forgot about that)! Itís not a heavy duty unit, it will only support ľ inch line, but it should work just fine for the topping lift, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
As to running the lines back, that is a nice feature, but IMHO over-rated, you might sort out what you have, get it working and re-assess after a season the value to you of the lines aft.
That makes a lot of sense. I'm now thinking that getting these systems functioning correctly should happen before I worry about running anything aft. Baby-steps

Thanks everyone! There are lots of great answers here. Iím going to take another look at the boat this weekend and think about the options suggested here.

Daniel
08-11-2010 11:42 AM
zz4gta
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenespeed View Post
Lines led aft - The area I can't quite get my mind wrapped around is the lines coming off the boom... So say I want to run an outhaul and two reefing lines for the reefing clews back to the cockpit. Getting the lines running toward the mast seems simple enough, but what about the downturn? Suppose the lines arenít internal, they're running alongside the boom, what hardware do I use to make the downturn? How do I avoid interfering with the Boomvang? And - I've always wondered this - when the boom is pointing directly aft, won't the tension on the lines be different (increase/decrease) as it swings to the side?
Thanks for reading!
Yes, most systems that have lines going from a moving object (boom) to a none moving one (mast) will do this. But the change is minimal.

Don't run the outhaul back to the cockpit. Keep it about 1/2 way on the boom and make it at least a 4:1.

If you call harken, they'll help you with specific part numbers to put together a really nice kit for you.

Remember, anytime a line goes over a block, under a sheeve, through a clutch, it adds friction. The longer the run, the more turns it'll have to take, and the more friction will be created. Jump on another boat and raise the main halyard from the cockpit. Then jump it from the mast. Huge difference, and it's only a couple extra peices of hardware.
08-11-2010 10:54 AM
sailingfool
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenespeed View Post
....
Reefing - I have a mainsail with three sets of reefs.... Alternatively, if I used cheek blocks with beckets, and placed them behind the clews, I'd have problems keeping the clew held down to the boom, correct?

Topping lift - I was thinking of putting a small block on the end of the SS cable and a small camcleat at the end of the boom. Then I'd just use a small line to manually adjust the boom height and loosen the topping lift when I start to sail, leaving it loose until I drop the main. For those of you with an easily adjustable topping lift - do you find it to be a very useful feature?

Lines led aft - The area I can't quite get my mind wrapped around is the lines coming off the boom... So say I want to run an outhaul and two reefing lines for the reefing clews back to the cockpit. Getting the lines running toward the mast seems simple enough, but what about the downturn? Suppose the lines arenít internal, they're running alongside the boom, what hardware do I use to make the downturn? How do I avoid interfering with the Boomvang? And - I've always wondered this - when the boom is pointing directly aft, won't the tension on the lines be different (increase/decrease) as it swings to the side?

Thanks for reading!
Reefing:using blocks with beckets should work fine. Adjust the position of the blocks so you get the right flattening of the foot when the reef clew is trimmed down to the boom, in general as long as the pull is aft it should work out OK. You should be able to trim the clew right to the foot - be sure to release the vang before. Run the reefing line under the boom and terminate to the becket with a bowline. The third reef is a trysail-alternative, don't worry about it until you head offshore.

Don't worry about adjusting the topping lift, ideally you wont need to and shouldn't. Figure out how long the lift need sto be so the main carries the boom closehauled, i.e the lift has some slack in it. When you drop the main, if the boom is not drooping into the cockpit, you can permanently set this lift length and forgetabout it for the season. If the boom droops too low, you need an adjustable lift. Be sure you never fail to ease it when you raise the main or you will put the boom at risk.

As to running the lines back, that is a nice feature, but IMHO over-rated, you might sort out what you have, get it working and re-assess after a season the value to you of the lines aft. The challenge is the turning blocks on the boom, at the base of the mast, followed by deck organizer, stoppers and winches.
08-11-2010 10:41 AM
sailingdog
Quote:
Questions:

Outhaul setup - can a cheek block be used to control the outhaul at the end of the boom? Is running the outhaul internally through the boom far superior because it pulls the clew directly back?
Yes, you can use a cheek block. Yes, running the outhaul through the boom gives a better line for the outhaul pulling on the clew. Also, most in-boom setups have a block setup that gives you 2:1 or better leverage on the outhaul.

Quote:
Reefing - I have a mainsail with three sets of reefs. I'd like to have it setup with two line reefing for at least two reefs. The mainsail has a boltrope at the foot and no cut-outs below the reefing clews. Is there a reason NOT to attach the end of the reefing line to the boom behind the corresponding reefing clew and use a cheek block on the other side of the boom to pull the line down vertically (I think that's opposite to the norm)? What can I use to attach the lines to the boom on the opposite side of the cheek block? Alternatively, if I used cheek blocks with beckets, and placed them behind the clews, I'd have problems keeping the clew held down to the boom, correct?
Why not have a sailmaker add grommets for the reefing line to go through at the foot of the sail? Tying the reefing line to the boom with a bowline around the standing part of the reefing line is really the simplest and most effective way to do this. The cheek blocks should be about six inches or so aft of the reefing point to provide the outhaul-like tensioning capability for the sail's reefing point.

Quote:
Topping lift - I was thinking of putting a small block on the end of the SS cable and a small camcleat at the end of the boom. Then I'd just use a small line to manually adjust the boom height and loosen the topping lift when I start to sail, leaving it loose until I drop the main. For those of you with an easily adjustable topping lift - do you find it to be a very useful feature?
Why not run the topping lift from the end of the boom, where it attaches to the boom using a shackle, up to a block near the top of the mast, and then down to the mast base—and possibly back to the cockpit. This would give you a proper topping lift and also allow you to use the topping lift as a backup main halyard in a pinch.

Quote:
Lines led aft - The area I can't quite get my mind wrapped around is the lines coming off the boom... So say I want to run an outhaul and two reefing lines for the reefing clews back to the cockpit. Getting the lines running toward the mast seems simple enough, but what about the downturn? Suppose the lines aren’t internal, they're running alongside the boom, what hardware do I use to make the downturn? How do I avoid interfering with the Boomvang? And - I've always wondered this - when the boom is pointing directly aft, won't the tension on the lines be different (increase/decrease) as it swings to the side?
If the lines are inside the boom, there's typically a set of sheaves at the front end of the boom, just before the gooseneck that allow you to turn the lines down to the mast base, and typically you'd add a set of turning blocks to the mast base and run the lines to a deck organizer and then to a set of line clutches and then possibly to a winch.

Without internal hardware, you can do basically the same thing using cheek blocks at the foreward end of the boom, just after the gooseneck. If the blocks are positioned properly at the mast base, it shouldn't affect or interfere with the boom vang.

Yes, the tension on the lines will change slightly, but if the blocks are mounted properly, the changes will be relatively insignificant.
08-11-2010 10:16 AM
zz4gta Harken's tech corner is a good start. Also some helpful information, do you know how to splice? Single braid, double braid, brummel splice, whipping, and lock stitching? Very easy to do and can save you 20-40 bucks a line. Also use a small single braid for about 30' of the halyard (you'll have to measure) then splice it to a more comfortable "tail". Dyneema is a good small diameter single braid line with little stretch and splices easily. It is slippery, so I'd suggest an eye splice and lock stitch it or a locking brummel splice. Don't trust a knot in that stuff.
08-11-2010 09:58 AM
Liquorice Not sure how much you've read or how experienced you are.
Have you seen this - a lot of useful ideas to get you started.
Harken Tech Corner
sam :-)
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