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32ft+ too big to learn?

8K views 39 replies 28 participants last post by  pdqaltair 
#1 ·
Thinking of buying my first boat as a newbie with minimal sailing experience. Rather than starting on smaller boat and trading up after gaining some experience I just wanted one boat for long term keeps. Is this a sensible approach? I am likely to struggle to learn on a bigger boat?

Oh, the boat I want has a full length keel - will this factor make my learning curve very long?
 
#2 ·
Seems like today many people take the approach you are contemplating. - ie buying a substantial boat from the get-go and starting from there. I suppose it's in part due to some having more money/credit these days than maybe previously.

It is do-able. Today's boats are equipped with good gear and good systems by and large.. if you're contemplating a tired old boat then there may be some issues there.

And before you dive into the 'full keel' world, you should do a realistic assessment of what your sailing habits are likely to be. For daysailing and coastal cruising you may find such a boat sluggish, slow, frustrating compared to what you might experience with a lighter, more performance oriented type of boat.

Another big issue with full keel/heavy boats is not so much their sailing habits per se, but the difficulties they can present maneuvering in and out of tight moorage spaces and harbours - most notably close-quarter maneuvers under power in reverse.

Make the acquaintance of a variety of local boaters and get a broader range of impressions before you make your move. Also, if you're tempted by the price point of the "larger" boat... beware.....
 
#7 ·
Seems like today many people take the approach you are contemplating. - ie buying a substantial boat from the get-go and starting from there. I suppose it's in part due to some having more money/credit these days than maybe previously.

It is do-able. Today's boats are equipped with good gear and good systems by and large.. if you're contemplating a tired old boat then there may be some issues there.

And before you dive into the 'full keel' world, you should do a realistic assessment of what your sailing habits are likely to be. For daysailing and coastal cruising you may find such a boat sluggish, slow, frustrating compared to what you might experience with a lighter, more performance oriented type of boat.

Another big issue with full keel/heavy boats is not so much their sailing habits per se, but the difficulties they can present maneuvering in and out of tight moorage spaces and harbours - most notably close-quarter maneuvers under power in reverse.

Make the acquaintance of a variety of local boaters and get a broader range of impressions before you make your move. Also, if you're tempted by the price point of the "larger" boat... beware.....
This is great advice!!
 
#4 ·
I think the 32ft+ is fine to learn on. My issue is your buying a boat without having enough experience to really know what kind of boat you should have and what the tradeoffs are. Depending on where you live, there are fractional shares which might be a good way to start. I would also suggest taking a multi-day trip at a sailing school that uses somewhat larger boats. I disagree with the previous comments about bigger boats being bigger problems. In some respects a bigger boat can be more forgiving of your mistakes. Seriously consider getting a little more experience and sailing time before you make the commitment to a specific boat.
 
#5 ·
I'd point out that you really learn about sail trim and balance and such things far better on a small sailing dinghy... The sheer size and mass of a 32' cruising sailboat, especially a full-keel design, work against it being a very responsive learning platform.
 
#6 ·
There's a fellow on here called NiteFly who bought a Tartan 30. He had some dinghy sailing experience. He picked it up very quickly. I took him out on my 25'er for a day to get some practice before he sailed the Tartan.

I totally understand your desire not to have to buy and sell a range of boats before you arrive at "the" boat. How about a compromise? Buy your large boat, but make friends with some dinghy racers, or buy some lessons. Learn on the dinghy while you fix up your bigger boat, then sail the big boat after a month of dinghy runs.
 
#8 ·
I just bought my first boat, a Gulfstar 37... My sailing experience consists solely of an 8-day ASA 101 & 103 course in the virgin islands aboard an Island Packet 440, and a number of days sailing on the Charles in Mercuries (15', IIRC). Sailing the IP during the class was a blast and I never felt like it was too big. The instructor was really good though. I haven't taken possession of my new boat yet, so I can't tell you whether or not the "starting big" thing actually works, but it seemed like the right thing to do :) My situation was somewhat complicated by wanting to live aboard, and you can't very well do that on a 22' boat.
 
#9 ·
I did the "buy smaller first" thing,, bought a really nice Hunter 23 with 10hp outboard, put roller furling on it.. and new motor mount and would have put a new outboard on too... but! I sold it because a realized in way less then a year that wanted a larger boat! Now my Oday 30 seems small.

I do agree with the others however, full keel boats are slugs out of their element, the ocean.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I do agree with the others however, full keel boats are slugs out of their element, the ocean.
Hi Denise, how are you?
Can I use your comment to reply?

I believe(know) that it depends on the boat. My first yacht was a 30' with what was considered a long keel. On W/E races and day races, [ club Vs club stuff] I used to clean up anything and I mean anything up to 30' and most things up to 35'. What I went up against included cruising yachts, bay sailors and the fleet which race in the Sydney to Hobart or Brisbane to Gladstone race.

I did not find any lightweight 'skiff on steroid' design in the races I went into. It might have shown a different result, but not in my experience.

A cutaway, full keel on a narrow, traditional design can be fast as well as predictable and comfortable and safe.

In response to the original question. --> Go for it. You will get more pleasure out of a yacht which is comfortable and functional in more settings. Enjoy
 
#10 ·
I would say that your first boat shouldn't be your long term dream boat ,
you dont want your dream boat to :run aground, hit the pier, drag anchor into another boat, or any of the other mishaps that may happen.
Buy a boat to learn on, something you won't be too worried about if it gets a scratch, and you can also learn what you really want or need in your dream boat.
 
#11 ·
I'd point out that the first boat you buy will rarely be the last boat you buy. Don Casey points out that most people buy a boat and learn about what they really want in their "boat" from the first one they buy. The second boat is often the one they keep for years, if not decades, and is their real "boat".
 
#13 ·
In all liklihood you boat will be (if its in a slip) around a bunch of boats the same size. i bet your neighbors--or at least some of them--would let you tag along with them a few times to show you the ropes, or be willing to go out with you on yours as long as she's seaworthy.
 
#14 ·
I don't know how to put this other than rather plainly

what makes you think that the boat you want that has a full keel is the right one for you?

Please, for all that is holy, please, take a spin on some other boats.
A lot of other boats.

Its kind of like saying you're a brand new driver and you want a 1973 pinto, and haven't even ridden in a 1973 ford station wagon. How do you know you want the pinto?
 
#17 ·
I don't know how to put this other than rather plainly

what makes you think that the boat you want that has a full keel is the right one for you?

Please, for all that is holy, please, take a spin on some other boats.
A lot of other boats.

Its kind of like saying you're a brand new driver and you want a 1973 pinto, and haven't even ridden in a 1973 ford station wagon. How do you know you want the pinto?
Boy, lots of much appreciated but contradictory advice. Looks like there's no right answer in the end - maybe i'll just stick with my instincts. I remember when learning to surf some years ago the advice was to start with a bigger board. I bought a smaller board simply because I liked the look of it. Perhaps my learning was made harder but I reckon I eneded up a more proficient shortboarder in the end.

As for my choice for a full keel - this is because my ambition is to undertake some long-distance offshore cruising eventually and the general consensus appears to be that this is the more desirable keel for the size of boat. Its a tricky one though and is a subject that will no doubt open up another lively debate...
 
#34 ·
Sorry you got trashed! I would say do exactly that - stick with your instincts. Many people will try to get you to see things like they do but in the end you have to decide what you like and what you want. Full keeled boats are not that bad to maneuver if you read up on what to expect from the boat under power. The book "dockmanship" is a good one.

I love my full keeled boat!
 
#16 ·
in agreement with Paul, I loved.. really loved the Pearson 35 on paper and photos... I finally got to see one last month, it's narrow beam. very small. I found it hard to accept it is indeed a 35ft boat! hated it.
 
#19 ·
MSJSTON—

I would highly recommend you not make any hard and fast decisions about what kind of keel you will need in whatever boat you buy until you've had a bit more experience sailing. There are plenty of designs of non-full keeled boats that are perfectly good bluewater sailboats. Restricting yourself to just full-keeled designs is probably a stupid idea, when you don't have the experience to know what you really want.

In the past, a full keeled boat might have been preferable for a bluewater cruiser, but that is really an outdated viewpoint.
 
#21 ·
Hey Dog,

Don't be rational when I'm using irony and sarcasm :cool:

...Nicer way of putting it, though :)

MSJSTON-

I would highly recommend you not make any hard and fast decisions about what kind of keel you will need in whatever boat you buy until you've had a bit more experience sailing. There are plenty of designs of non-full keeled boats that are perfectly good bluewater sailboats. Restricting yourself to just full-keeled designs is probably a stupid idea, when you don't have the experience to know what you really want.

In the past, a full keeled boat might have been preferable for a bluewater cruiser, but that is really an outdated viewpoint.
 
#20 ·
really?


As for my choice for a full keel - this is because my ambition is to undertake some long-distance offshore cruising eventually and the general consensus appears to be that this is the more desirable keel for the size of boat. Its a tricky one though and is a subject that will no doubt open up another lively debate...


that is certainly NOT the general consensus of opinion.

Not only are the above left out (all very capable blue water boats) There also is..
Valiant, Cabo Rico, Amel, Swan, Gulfstar, CSY, PSC, CS, and a whole host of others.

See, not to get personal at all, but at this point in your venture,
you don't know what you don't know.

I'm not saying that you aren't looking a fine boat, but, don't take the full keel thing as gospel, as its the only thing you need to have to travel off to the hinterlands.

There are some fine books available on the subject, as well as many "old" read ~experienced~ sailors here. Most will give you their honest opinion as to what you should be looking for.
Take it with a grain of salt, as they will be somewhat biased based on what they own, but to a person, they will be able to offer insight, separating the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

Based on your statements, you owe it to yourself to spend time on, and with different sailboats.
Walk the docks, offer to be railmeat for a sailor going out for the day, most will be glad to have an extra pair of hands. And they'll talk your ear off on what works, and doesn't work for them.
THEN after digesting all of that,, THEN go look for a boat that fits your needs.
 
#24 ·
Althugh a little unconventional I too was looking for the first boat to be the one. I have since changed my thinking. Although I am still pretty set on something in the 36' range, I have been sailing boats in the 20' range that are pretty beat up. Perhaps a better approach would be to find a cheap (<$1000), but safe 20 something boat to learn on. Don't sink too much money (if any) into it, just keep it operational, safe and afloat. Then when you are done, and you are ready, donate her and move on up.
 
#26 ·
I bought my first sailboat 2 years ago. A 32ft C & C 99. I had previously sailed and took lessons an Alerion 38 for one year. After about 8 lessons, we decided to buy our own and spent a year shopping. I tend to buy things I can grow into as opposed to outgrowing. The C & C was a lot to handle for an inexperienced sailor. But I learn everyday. I have books aboard and rely on SailNet for advice. I also ask around the yard when I need advice. One thing to note, most folks at the yard think you know all there is too know, so they don't offer advice unless asked. Make friends w/ the locals and experienced sailors. They'll want to come along with you when invited. Make friends with your local sail loft and rigging guy. They'll become goto people for advice as well. We are in year 2. We've sailed over 25 days this summer. A few scary times, a bit of yelling here and there, and no one has gotten hurt. Its been a great experience. Go for it.
 
#27 ·
All I can say is I originally bought a boat as a bachelor thinking that would be the "one". Years later, with a family, I have a completely different kind of boat that makes a whole lot more sense for my current family situation. Buy the boat for the next few years, and worry about the "dream" boat later.
 
#30 ·
I believe that you get to a point of diminishing returns, while it is possible to single hand a large boat it is sometimes difficult. So you will need some good friends or a willing spouse. You could hop on a twenty-six footer and be very comfortable alone . The other consideration is the draft, I found that most marinas can handle four foot but not seven. I was a dockmaster in Florida just seemed to me the smaller boats got used more then the bigger ones.
 
#32 ·
I could make the argument either way. A smaller boat will make you more attuned to basic sailing instincts and procedures. On the other hand, a larger boat tends to be more forgiving of small mistakes. I don't think 32 ft is too large to learn on so long as you're shown properly what to do. Either way, best of luck!
 
#33 ·
32ft too large?

As one who purchased a 33 ft. sailboat this summer, with good tutoring, reading, and class, the 32 ft. boat is doable. Know your limitations, be patient, and get a good experienced captain to first teach you and practice docking in all types of situations. Sail with one sail, and then with two, and start with light winds and and work up to higher wind days. You must know all points of sailing in wind and have a good understanding of sailing principles. Use this board to ask specific questions as there is a vast amount of good knowledge and experience available here.

Good luck!
 
#35 ·
Go for it

My first and most assuredly my last boat is my present one. A 37 foot fin keel boat. I certainly recommend that you make your first one, one that you, at least at the time, think you would want to keep for a long time. As far as learning to sail her properly, get out and do some club racing and invite an experienced sailor along lots of times. Racing will force you to sail correctly or come in last every time and that's no fun at all. That's the way I went and now believe that I can handle my boat pretty well as I almost always finish in the top three in every race.

Boats are expensive enough without trading up every few years. Just keeping up with the "necessary" electronics and other toys can put a strain on your budget.
 
#37 ·
I learned to sail in my 30's at the Boston Harbor Sailing Club on a soling 27 and then sailed their Pearson 26’s for a season. I found them too small for taking guests and entertaining. Next year I bought a Pearson 30 and twelve months later, a Pearson 424 with hank on sails. I sailed the 42 single-handed including on/off a mooring and later in and out of a slip without any major problems.

For me the key was to think ahead and do things slowly. I found the 42 easier to sail than the 30 most of the time.

Everyone is different and there are lots of opinions. Some of them are even valid! :)

Good luck.
 
#38 ·
Starting off with a bigger boat may doable, but I'm not so sure.

I caught the sailing bug in 1995. At the time, my wife wasn't so sure about buying a boat; and showed me a newspaper ad for a local sailing co-operative. Our first year was spent day sailing in O'Day 20's. Trust me, we made every mistake that was possible to make.

I quickly learned that it was easier to get out of those mistakes on a smaller boat. It was also easier to learn how to get underway and dock. By the time I was docking Catalina 27's, it wasn't so bad.

Last year, we finally took the plunge and bought our own boat (still social members, though!). I don't think the transition to 29' would have been so smooth if we had tried to start there.

At the end of the day, however, it is up to the OP. I think there is something to be said, tho, for starting small. :)
 
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