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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Do you carry firearms while cruising?
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Thread: Do you carry firearms while cruising? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-12-2012 03:10 PM
BreakAwayFL
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Perhaps it's just me, but I hardly see the point of going to Havana if you're not gonna leave the confines of Marina Hemingway... You're not suggesting you'd actually entrust your family's safety to Castro's police whilst wandering around the streets of Havana, are you?
Yes, yes I would trust them, and would spend most of my time out of the marina. They zealously guard tourists, and will provide escort if requested to common destinations for extremely reasonable rates ($10 RT to anywhere in Havana for example). You will find incidents to be extremely rare, as the punishments to criminals are extremely harsh when foreigners are involved.

Quote:
Unless things have changed drastically since I cruised Cuba, I think you're in for quite a surprise if you think their policy is "made simple" by virtue of the fact that there are relatively few Ports of Entry in Cuba...

You don't appear to understand that you will be required to check in and out with the Guarda EACH AND EVERY TIME you move your boat in Cuban waters... I have to assume your weapons would be taken from you for "safekeeping" every time you checked in with the Guarda...
Exactly correct, I do understand, and why would I expect it to be different? I'm bringing a weapon into their national territory. I'm grateful that their policies allow me to do so, and will abide by them strictly.

Quote:
You are under their watchful eye continuously, they will likely dictate where you can and cannot anchor, for example, and any sort of dinghy exploration is generally prohibited... There are exceptions, of course, when you get into remote regions such as the Jardines de la Reina along the south coast, but for the most part each and every time you move your boat, it will be dictated by and subject to the jurisdiction of the Guarda...
More or less correct. By dingy exploration I'm assuming that you mean landing by dingy. Of course it's prohibited, as you aren't at an official point of entry. Trying to do so just because you are somewhere remote and might not get seen is just plain stupid.

Quote:
Until you've experienced it, there's no describing the virtual paranoia of these officials... Your boat will be subject to routine "inspections" that will easily take an hour or more, each and every time you clear in and out of your next destination... They are obsessive about things like accounting for portable GPS units and outboard motors, I can't even begin to imagine how they would react to dealing with someone who had entered the country with weapons aboard... I can only guess such might complicate your experience to such a degree, you would wind up deeply regretting having decided to visit in the first place...
It seems you are the one with paranoia, not them. They are doing their jobs. They make sure you aren't bringing anything illegal in, and they make sure that the equipment you arrive with is accounted for in case there are any issues later on.

Plenty of people arrive each year with weapons on board. Do some searching on other forums, or just Google. As far as regretting the visit; Your mind seems to be made up, so why would I try to convince you that it would be worth my time, when it obviously isn't worth yours?

Quote:
Forgive my ignorance of international weapons regulations, but how many countries out there would permit an American visitor to wander around within their borders while "packing heat" for personal protection?
Couldn't say, but I know Grand Bahama and Bimini require a check in of your gun and strict accounting of your ammunition quantities, but then allow you to retain your weapons and ammo. The only reason I know this is because my sail to there is much sooner, so I have already finished doing my homework. I would imagine if I'm 2 for 2 on my first trip then they aren't the only ones in the Caribbean who allow it.

Quote:
You obviously don't trust American law enforcement for your personal protection while in the States... Just curious, but are there actually ANY countries out there that you would depend upon their law enforcement for your personal protection while in their country?
I do trust American law enforcement officers, I think most of them are hardworking people trying to do the right thing. All of their good intentions, however, do me no good if I wake up to find someone in my house. The police don't do me any good a phone call and 10 minutes away.

Whilst wandering the streets and markets openly, I would trust many countries to keep me safe, but not all, i.e. Columbia, Haiti, Jamaica, some areas of Mexico, etc.

Being prepared and never having to utilize that which you have prepared for is not a failure, it is a success. Not preparing is unwise, and some would say foolish. However, it is your life to risk. I don't have to agree with your choice to sail unarmed and I might try to convince you otherwise, but in the end when you sail off - it is your life and the lives of your crew in your hands.
04-12-2012 12:37 PM
Capt Len
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Better to mount 'er on the binnacle right over the compass. That way you can change tacts much more quickly.
04-12-2012 01:32 AM
MedSailor
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Is it just me,or does anyone else find that their deck-mounted .50 snags the sheets when tacking?
They make a non-snagging model now. It's a must have for the foredeck:
04-11-2012 11:25 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakAwayFL View Post
It does not defeat the purpose. I don't need a gun when I'm in Hemingway Marina, Havana, for example.
Perhaps it's just me, but I hardly see the point of going to Havana if you're not gonna leave the confines of Marina Hemingway... You're not suggesting you'd actually entrust your family's safety to Castro's police whilst wandering around the streets of Havana, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakAwayFL View Post
Once I depart Hemingway Marina, even if I am cruising Cuban waters, my firearm is returned to my possession. However, when I make port again, it will be locked up. This policy is made more simple by the fact that there are only a few legal ports of entry for a boat traveling to Cuba.
Unless things have changed drastically since I cruised Cuba, I think you're in for quite a surprise if you think their policy is "made simple" by virtue of the fact that there are relatively few Ports of Entry in Cuba...

You don't appear to understand that you will be required to check in and out with the Guarda EACH AND EVERY TIME you move your boat in Cuban waters... I have to assume your weapons would be taken from you for "safekeeping" every time you checked in with the Guarda... You are under their watchful eye continuously, they will likely dictate where you can and cannot anchor, for example, and any sort of dinghy exploration is generally prohibited... There are exceptions, of course, when you get into remote regions such as the Jardines de la Reina along the south coast, but for the most part each and every time you move your boat, it will be dictated by and subject to the jurisdiction of the Guarda...

Until you've experienced it, there's no describing the virtual paranoia of these officials... Your boat will be subject to routine "inspections" that will easily take an hour or more, each and every time you clear in and out of your next destination... They are obsessive about things like accounting for portable GPS units and outboard motors, I can't even begin to imagine how they would react to dealing with someone who had entered the country with weapons aboard... I can only guess such might complicate your experience to such a degree, you would wind up deeply regretting having decided to visit in the first place...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakAwayFL View Post
When I am in a nation that confiscates firearms, I am reliant on their law enforcement, for good or ill, to protect me. If I don't think that's safe enough, then I should not have sailed there. (and would not)

At sea, however, there is no local law enforcement. Just me and my family. I'm in charge of protecting them and myself at sea. I'll do so by whatever means necessary.
Forgive my ignorance of international weapons regulations, but how many countries out there would permit an American visitor to wander around within their borders while "packing heat" for personal protection?

You obviously don't trust American law enforcement for your personal protection while in the States... Just curious, but are there actually ANY countries out there that you would depend upon their law enforcement for your personal protection while in their country?
04-06-2012 10:42 AM
bljones
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Is it just me,or does anyone else find that their deck-mounted .50 snags the sheets when tacking?
04-06-2012 09:39 AM
BreakAwayFL
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patient View Post
Hey everyone, I was just sent this video by a friend and thought I should share it here.

I am told this is the first documented case of an tanker that uses a security firm making contact with pirates, at least in video form.

Link: (Warning: Although not graphic, the Video involves shooting at pirates and is pretty intense.)

I am really on the fence about this to be honest. I want to be happy that these tankers are "fighting back", but really its horrible to see such an exchange of violence over something that really just comes down to money.

This is what crossed my mind after watching this video: If every tanker company now forks over the pricey consultation fee to have an armed security team aboard. What targets will pirates eventually focus on instead? That would be us right?

Moderators, I apologize if the video breeches Sailnet's ToS, but its a whole new ball game with this incident and thought it was worth continuing the discussion here.
Thanks for posting. It's about time these ships have some protection on board to defend themselves. You raise a very interesting point. However, keep in mind that small, private vessels have already been attacked in this part of the world a number of times over the past few years.

My answer to them would be: A. Don't sail there. It sucks but you could die. B. If you really have to or want to sail there, arm and protect yourself. Big ships crews get taken hostage most of the time (the ones that aren't killed in the assault), but the crews of (>50') pleasure boats have an almost 50% mortality when attacked by pirates in this part of the world in the past few years. (not an exact number just based off of my reading).

For pleasure cruisers, in this case - armed or not I say - just don't go there.
04-06-2012 08:10 AM
administrator
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patient View Post
Hey everyone, I was just sent this video by a friend and thought I should share it here.

I am told this is the first documented case of an tanker that uses a security firm making contact with pirates, at least in video form.

Link: (Warning: Although not graphic, the Video involves shooting at pirates and is pretty intense.)

I am really on the fence about this to be honest. I want to be happy that these tankers are "fighting back", but really its horrible to see such an exchange of violence over something that really just comes down to money.

This is what crossed my mind after watching this video: If every tanker company now forks over the pricey consultation fee to have an armed security team aboard. What targets will pirates eventually focus on instead? That would be us right?

Moderators, I apologize if the video breeches Sailnet's ToS, but its a whole new ball game with this incident and thought it was worth continuing the discussion here.
thanks for posting. I'm a firm believer in the saying - live by the sword, die by the sword.
04-06-2012 06:25 AM
Patient
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Hey everyone, I was just sent this video by a friend and thought I should share it here.

I am told this is the first documented case of an tanker that uses a security firm making contact with pirates, at least in video form.

Link: (Warning: Although not graphic, the Video involves shooting at pirates and is pretty intense.)

I am really on the fence about this to be honest. I want to be happy that these tankers are "fighting back", but really its horrible to see such an exchange of violence over something that really just comes down to money.

This is what crossed my mind after watching this video: If every tanker company now forks over the pricey consultation fee to have an armed security team aboard. What targets will pirates eventually focus on instead? That would be us right?

Moderators, I apologize if the video breeches Sailnet's ToS, but its a whole new ball game with this incident and thought it was worth continuing the discussion here.
04-05-2012 11:51 AM
BreakAwayFL
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptFoolhardy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakAwayFL
I have not heard of any country in the Caribbean - including Cuba - that will make an issue of your having guns on board AS LONG as you declare them right away. Cuba locks them in a case, gives you the key and takes the case with them, returning it when you leave. I'm sure other countries have similar policies.
What's the point of bringing it then? From the reports that I have read the vast majority of crime against cruisers, violent or otherwise, takes place at anchor. If your gun is confiscated upon check-in with customs it kind of defeats the purpose of having it with you in the first place, doesn't it?
It does not defeat the purpose. I don't need a gun when I'm in Hemingway Marina, Havana, for example. Once I depart Hemingway Marina, even if I am cruising Cuban waters, my firearm is returned to my possession. However, when I make port again, it will be locked up. This policy is made more simple by the fact that there are only a few legal ports of entry for a boat traveling to Cuba.

When I am in a nation that confiscates firearms, I am reliant on their law enforcement, for good or ill, to protect me. If I don't think that's safe enough, then I should not have sailed there. (and would not)

At sea, however, there is no local law enforcement. Just me and my family. I'm in charge of protecting them and myself at sea. I'll do so by whatever means necessary.
04-05-2012 06:15 AM
killarney_sailor
Re: Do you carry firearms while cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Despite the peace and tranquility, their economy certainly isn't thriving. Medical care is moderate, you wouldn't want to be there with cancer or in need of an organ transplant. According to buddies that have gone diving in the PIN's, things like power, telephones and Internet are not fully reliable.

Nevertheless, that might be as good as it could be there, despite the form of govt. Interesting twist.
Guess it depends on how you define "thriving". It certainly is not growing like China, nor is it suffering like Greece. I certainly did not see signs of gross poverty like people sleeping on the street. There is a considerable difference between the wealthy and the less wealthy - unfortunately, the income differences seem to follow the racial differences in the country. The poor tend to be native Fijian, while the rich tend to Indian (of which there are many), white, and Chinese. China is very much involved with the economy there.

I had reason to visit the Private Hospital in Suva. It was quite impressive. The doctor was Indian Fijian and had trained in Oz. The total cost for the visit was $16. Doubt they do organ transplants but would not be surprised if they had decent cancer treatment.

Heck if you want thriving, pick one of the major cities in China. People generally think the government is doing a good job (excellent infrastructure and mostly they keep out of the way). Environmental conditions are terrible; health care is excellent, if you can afford it, and you can get rich.
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