|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|10-27-2010 06:56 AM|
I'm not condemning the OP for his offer. My issue is that the OP is trying to pass this off as a vacation. It isn't one. He's trying to call asking crew to subsidize the delivery something it isn't.
From the OP's various posts:
Yes, if someone needs sea time and miles, this might be a good deal for a person....but honestly, let's call it what it is... A DELIVERY. If you don't mind subsidizing someone's cruising costs and don't mind paying for expenses that rightly should be borne by the boat owner in exchange for a sea-going berth... be my guest. Just don't be under the illusion that this is a vacation, regardless of what the OP says it is.
Yes, doing a delivery can be a lot of fun. But they're also a lot of work. With four people aboard, especially if two of them are inexperienced as the OP claims is okay, you'll be doing TWO-PERSON watches—at least at night. That means you won't be getting much sleep. If the OP says that you'll be doing solo watches—I'd have to question his judgement, especially since he says you don't need to have experience. I wouldn't want an inexperienced person on watch solo, especially on a night watch.
No where have I said that the crew should be making money on doing this—even though that seems to be what the OP and UR keep claiming... just that they shouldn't have to bear the costs of feeding themselves while they're working. If someone is okay with subsidizing this guy's cruising in exchange for a berth... go for it.
|10-27-2010 05:16 AM|
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
My objection, that was also a warning, concerned the risks that eventually uninformed crew members (eventually from this forum) could experience from sailing out of Azores in the rainy and stormy season. Sailing in rain and bad weather is not my idea of fun and the trip was been advertised as holidays, not to speak of eventual danger.
Snowflake 123 have taken in consideration what I have told him about the right place to begin a Transat on this time of the year and moved his departure point 750 miles south to Canary Islands and that just takes away my concerns and objections.
I agree that could be a nice experience, even if a 36ft Cat is a relatively small boat to do that kind of voyage, but, of course that are some 36ft bluewater cats, and others that are just intended for coastal work.
Snowflake 123, just to take away any doubt and to show us, and all that are eventually interested, that you have an appropriated boat for the job, do you mind to post some more information about your cat (model, year) and pictures?
|10-27-2010 01:27 AM|
I can't believe how shoddily this new member has been treated by the forum. Most sailors don't have boats and getting sufficient sea miles can be a difficult task, particularly for those certifications that really mean something (Yachtmaster or SSS to name just two) and giving people an opportunity to cross the pond without having to pay for berths is a generous offer.
I do note that only those who don't need miles or look for the adventure of an ocean crossing complained about the offer. What some call "work" many others will call "fun" and to condemn the original poster for his offer is patently unjustified.
|10-26-2010 11:29 PM|
Yes, the Bendy toy 51' First I sailed on was ocean cruising ready after doing the ARC and the owner was a doctor so I considered it safe to do with just two people for 400+ nm on open ocean. I had a blast and would even consider paying a per diem for food to do it again, plus air fare.
SnowFlake is asking for voluntary crew who will pay their own expenses, not a delivery crew. I don't think that either of us is going to volunteer, for our own reasons, but what is the harm caused by the OP for looking for paying crew for the ARC on SailNet?
Take a deep breath please
This is just a guy wanting a few (good looking) person(s) to join them in the ARC. It is not really a delivery but a race.
Breathe deeply again.
|10-26-2010 09:54 PM|
now, who was that again, getting this mongrel off the forum?
oh, sorry. not mongrel, it was sailingdog...i am confused...
|10-26-2010 07:09 PM|
I'd point out that a new model Bendytoy 51' is a bit different from the OP's description of the boat they're on:
|10-26-2010 06:28 PM|
Actually the ARC is a race and Caribbean delivery combined. Cruising divisions are allowed to motor when they feel it necessary. Some people do this for the cachet of the race and others merely to reposition their boats or a bit of both. There are entry fees to join the ARC and the boats they accept must meet certain safety criteria (eg., no life raft? no ARC, no Sat phone or SSB? no ARC etc).
There are plenty of people who would pay to do this. I'd love to but I can't afford it.
I watched a 51' Beneteau on the ARC website that a friend owned a few years back. It seemed pretty exciting from my couch - they show daily position reports on a chart. I ended up helping this friend on a delivery leg of his boat from the BVIs to Turks & Caicos for which I paid my airfare and beer tab, the owner paid for the food. I really enjoyed the trip on the open ocean even if there were only 2 of us on the boat. While it was a leg of an ultimate delivery to Stamford, CT it was also an adventure. I think the owner would have done it by himself with the radar doing some of the night watches but his wife wanted him to have at least one other person on board. I was not the delivery captain, the owner was and I just enjoyed a chance to be part of a crew on an ocean voyage. I'd do it again if I had the time and money.
|10-26-2010 05:13 PM|
I never said crew had to be paid. But why should crew subsidize a boat owner's cruising?
You can call it a wonderful opportunity, a three nutted monkey, or whatever else you wish but bottom line is, your crew is providing a service to you and you don't feel like they should be compensated in any way for their efforts. According to Uncleruckus, if you love your job you should pay your employer for the privilege of going to work everyday. I imagine your ok with a delivery captain who gets paid by the owner then charges his crew as well.
If this were advertised as a training cruise, and the owner has the proper credentials, I'd have no problem with it. Anyone who signs on would be gettng something in return. That's not the case here.
So, exactly who is trying to get something for free?
|10-26-2010 12:40 PM|
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
A Challenge boat is not a luxury boat by far, they were designed and built to "race" around the world upwind. Most of the charter boats in the fleet are not luxury cruisers, even though Brits refer to them as yachts, they are just called sailboats here. A Bene 40.7 probably has less interior space than a 37' cat, but if you were to want to do the trip on Coyote it would cost you $3700. And even though you are paying to be on the boat you will still be reqiured to stand watches and assist in the day to day operation of the boat. Also most of the charter boats are dry, as in no booze while underway.
For some people having to get out of bed at 3:00 am to stand watch alone at sea on a sailboat is a tedious chore, for me it is pure heaven. But I guess we won't ever agree on this point so no sense beating a dead horse. My main point is when someone post a crewing opportunity they shouldn't have to be subject to ridicule and childess name calling.
And that is about the last I will have to say about it.
Snowflake, Believe me if I could get the time off I would be on my way already. A friend of mine was hired to skipper one of the charter boats down from England, she left last week, (with crew paying $1500 for the experience) and then she'll take it across with the ARC. I could have joined her on the trip down for 20 quid a day, but this is our busiest time of the year.
I will be in St. Lucia for my annual Christmas/ New Years charter through the Grenadines. I join the boat on Dec. 16 and the charter starts on the 19th. We are usually docked on F dock at the marina in Rodney Bay. If you are there around that time drop me a PM and maybe we can get together for a beer, I would like to hear how the trip went.
Stay safe and good luck in your trip.
PS: if it was me I'd sign up that young girl from Poland for the crossing.
|10-26-2010 11:50 AM|
BITE ME!!!! LOL
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
|This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.|