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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > European sailboats ( especially Contest, Sigma, Etap... )
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Thread: European sailboats ( especially Contest, Sigma, Etap... ) Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-22-2010 05:14 PM
PCP Hey, Rcoles, the boat you posted is not the Contest 36ft (as you have said) but the 35ft:

Crusader Yacht Sales (Annapolis, MD)

So, it is this one:

http://www.contestyachts.com/media/936/contest-35s.pdf

Contest 35s | Dick Zaal Yacht Design

Also designed by Dick Zall (1987). Both boats coexisted at the same time on the Contest line. This one is however a more modern design (5 years later) and you can see the difference in the hull form. The 35s is remarkably more modern. I also found it more beautiful.

Regards

Paulo
10-22-2010 02:57 PM
mitiempo "My real wish would be an OVNI or a TRSBAL..."

TRSBAL?

The Contest you linked to looks pretty good. Nice large aft double. Except for the upholstery color in the main cabin I like it.
10-22-2010 01:43 PM
JomsViking Bob,
I agree with most of what you say, however have a few comments (see below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
They are obscure in North America, particularly on the West Coast of the US. That is where the prospective buyer is, and where sale/resale price will be determined. RColes is knowledgeable about sailboats, yet he came here for opinions because Contests are not frequent on the docks. If he wants a fair resale price, he is welcome to sail his Contest to Europe to sell it, where the boat will be appreciated and fetch a higher price.

In the US, you either wait years for the rare buyer who knows and values the brand, or you accept a price discount. *shrug* How many Europeans really know Morris Yachts and would be willing to pay premium for them -- over and above a known European quantity like Bavaria?
I think many Europeans know Morris Yachts, but You're right, we're not buying loads of them.

Quote:
Look, I'm a huge fan of Scandinavian boats little known in the US -- Albins are my favorites, along with Omega, Scanmar, Sweden Yachts, and English permutations of Nordic design like SHE and Sigma. And of course Contessa -- but Contessas were built in North America for a while, they are a famous name much written about by Americans (Kretschmer, Aebi), and everyone knows a Contessa 32 survived the '79 Fastnet when larger yachts did not. No one knows a SHE of similar size also finished that race in good form. So even in Europe, Contessas sell quicker & fetch higher prices than SHEs -- the Fame Premium. Here in the US, the Contessa 32 commonly sells for $35-40k USD; the similar Albin Ballad sells for under $12,000 -- commonly $8,000, and I tried to buy one in Seattle for $1000 USD, no kidding. This same boat has been listed at $48k in Denmark.
I honestly believe you've seen the price in Danish Kroner, which is pretty close to $8k, which is what an Albin Vega could have brought you a few years ago, but I doubt today - A Ballad would be twice that.

Quote:
So don't get your back up, dude. "Obscure" is not an indictment of Conyplex or Contest or their yachts (tho their early product line was uneven and they did build some dogs), but rather a commentary on how ignorant we in the US are of many old, established, and well-regarded builders in other parts of the world. And how that affects sale and resale prices.

(And vice versa. I'm sure the worthies present could rattle off dozens of boutique North American sailboat marques that have been building top-notch craft for 100 years -- and you would never have heard of most.)
[/QUOTE]
I agree that they built some dogs - many of the Contests are built as two half-hulls and then joined together - the first 36 also had issues with keel fastenings, I would also argue that most of them are not fast boats by any stretch of the imagination (too slow for me).
10-22-2010 12:59 PM
rcoles Looking to sail her on Long Island Sound, NY. I just let go a Carter 33 (Belwood NY - Restoration and fine woodworking ) . I should not have departed from her. She sailed "solo" to the Azores and now is en route to the Med... Just a IOR boat - a bit too crazy for me growing older...
My real wish would be an OVNI or a TRSBAL... but again who would know that on this side of the pond. Plus, electrolysis in New York's marina... .. ..
The boat is in Annapolis. I thank Bob for inciting me in reducing the price since it is an obscure manufacturer.
A bit like a CS36 made in Canada. I look at one. Price was just about too high. But worse, the joinery was not up to my standard. And my best mate ( wink ) did not like the claustrophobic feeling of the peak cabin.
A Tartan 37 or a Ericson 38 or Bristol 35.5 (1982) would be my other options...
But again, not the same quality of construction.
Crusader Yacht Sales (Annapolis, MD)
10-22-2010 12:28 PM
mitiempo I think it might be a smaller world than some think. Whether good or bad, boats are known throughout the civilized world.
10-22-2010 12:18 PM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
..
In the US, you either wait years for the rare buyer who knows and values the brand, or you accept a price discount. *shrug* How many Europeans really know Morris Yachts and would be willing to pay premium for them -- over and above a known European quantity like Bavaria?

..
Dude,

Here everybody knows about Morris yachts. We like quality boats particularly the ones that are still in production. Their boats particularly the Classic line has been sail tested by almost all European Magazines.

Regards

Paulo
10-22-2010 12:14 PM
bobmcgov
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
The prospective buyer's profile says he cruises Long Island. I think it is located on the East Coast.
Whoops! My bad. For some reason, Vancouver/Tacoma stuck in my head. Bleed-over from another thread about importing boats from Canada. But the case remains the same: Contests are about as cherished in Long Island as Cascades are in Lisbon.
10-22-2010 12:06 PM
mitiempo The prospective buyer's profile says he cruises Long Island. I think it is located on the East Coast.
10-22-2010 12:01 PM
bobmcgov
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Contest have in Europe a very high resale value. It is not an obscure boat but one of the most well built and seaworty boat ever built. The company still exists (and that says a lot about the quality of their boats) and still makes beautiful and very expensive bluewater boats. This is a typical Dutch boat, that can be compared to Halberg Rassy, not in its design, but in its quality, and that is especially true with older boats. I think the new ones are even more expensive

Contest Yachts | Home

I think, without looking at anything, that older Contest are slightly faster than HR, but they would be considered slow boats by today's parameters. Older Contest were designed by Dick Zall, a very good Dutch designer. These boats, even with 36ft, are really bluewater boats. There are two 36ft, one that was built from 1974 to 1981 and other from 1984 to 1994. The first one is an old design, but the second one is a beautiful boat, designed already with the shape that would be a trademark for all Contests for almost 20 years. If you are talking about one of the last, than it is natural that the boat cost still good money . It is a very good boat, with a classical line .

http://www.contestyachts.com/media/938/contest-36s.pdf

Contest 36s | Dick Zaal Yacht Design

You have active British and Duch Contest Clubs owners:

Home

Contest Yacht Owners Club

You can ask them about that boat, I am sure they will be glad to help.

Regards

Paulo
They are obscure in North America, particularly on the West Coast of the US. That is where the prospective buyer is, and where sale/resale price will be determined. RColes is knowledgeable about sailboats, yet he came here for opinions because Contests are not frequent on the docks. If he wants a fair resale price, he is welcome to sail his Contest to Europe to sell it, where the boat will be appreciated and fetch a higher price.

In the US, you either wait years for the rare buyer who knows and values the brand, or you accept a price discount. *shrug* How many Europeans really know Morris Yachts and would be willing to pay premium for them -- over and above a known European quantity like Bavaria?

Look, I'm a huge fan of Scandinavian boats little known in the US -- Albins are my favorites, along with Omega, Scanmar, Sweden Yachts, and English permutations of Nordic design like SHE and Sigma. And of course Contessa -- but Contessas were built in North America for a while, they are a famous name much written about by Americans (Kretschmer, Aebi), and everyone knows a Contessa 32 survived the '79 Fastnet when larger yachts did not. No one knows a SHE of similar size also finished that race in good form. So even in Europe, Contessas sell quicker & fetch higher prices than SHEs -- the Fame Premium. Here in the US, the Contessa 32 commonly sells for $35-40k USD; the similar Albin Ballad sells for under $12,000 -- commonly $8,000, and I tried to buy one in Seattle for $1000 USD, no kidding. This same boat has been listed at $48k in Denmark.

So don't get your back up, dude. "Obscure" is not an indictment of Conyplex or Contest or their yachts (tho their early product line was uneven and they did build some dogs), but rather a commentary on how ignorant we in the US are of many old, established, and well-regarded builders in other parts of the world. And how that affects sale and resale prices.

(And vice versa. I'm sure the worthies present could rattle off dozens of boutique North American sailboat marques that have been building top-notch craft for 100 years -- and you would never have heard of most.)
10-21-2010 12:14 PM
Faster Not sure about the US numbers, but importing a non North American built boat into Canada will cost an additional 9.5% duty. If you're buying new I suppose that's in the initial price.. if you're buying used and crossing the border then you'll get hit with the extra..

Nearly 10% could be what makes your decision, all other things being equal, between a foreign boat and a domestic one.
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