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About to buy a N33 -- getting cold feet?

6K views 20 replies 11 participants last post by  KeelHaulin 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

I've just joined this forum because I'm in the final stages of buying a '83 Newport 33. I like the boat a lot, but am having a hard time deciding if this is a good deal. This will be my first boat, used for SF bay day sailing and weekend cruising with the family to start, later maybe some coastal trips. I've crewed around the bay, up and down the coast, and to Hawaii once, but not much experience being responsible for a boat.

Plusses:
In the last three years, it gotten all new standing and running rigging, new cruising laminate sails, new prop and shaft, new Garhouer rigid vang, rebuilt masthead, new custom built gooseneck, adj back stay, all lines run aft, new lifelines, blisters ground and new bottom paint. Has Harken roller furling, cockpit cushions, Autohelm 3000 that works. The survey went well with no real problems -- a solid hull. Gell coat is not bad -- a few repairs on the hull, some cosmetic cracking on the decks but not too bad for a 27 yr old boat.The rudder bushings have little play. The interior looks pretty nice, with servicable cushions and pretty nice woodwork. Pressure water works, head and holding tank are good. 12V refridgeration works. New Marelon ball valves and hoses on all through-hulls. Transmission shift easily and smoothly and controls are nice.

Minuses:
Took it sailing Thursday, was somewhat discincerted when it became hard to control as the winds hit 20kts with full sail. It developed a heavy weather helm, and would round up somewhat violently with gusts. Furling the 125% genoa by 20% seemed to return it to sanity. I've read about this complaint with Newports before, sounds like shortening the forestay can help (or maybe just reefing). Universal diesel starts easily and runs well at 180deg @5.5kts, but has corrosion down the front and particularly on the oil pan from an old leak in the raw water pump (fresh water cooled). Mucky underneath. The hour meter is broken with 1200hrs so I have no idea how many it has. oil is black. The windows leak -- it was raining during the survey and water was coming in around at least two windows. Appeared to be coming under the frames rather than through the rubber; maybe some from port chainplate. Stains on the teak, but no rot. Teak and holly sole is thin veneer that was sanded through during a refinish. CNG stove and water heater don't work (Seller said the stove works). Masthead light doesn't work. The fiberglass hatches are ugly but appear sound.

I know he has $34k in the boat in three years. He's accepted my offer of $22k. This is a bigger boat than I planned on buying and more money than I was going to spend, and the monthly costs are of course correspondingly higher, but it's got a lot of big-ticket items done.

Any opinions/advice to push me one way or the other? Hope my long-winded post doesn't offend anyone.

Thanks for any input!
 
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#2 ·
Given your apprehension with the sailing characteristics...I would decline, but seems that as you have offered and he has accepted...you may be stuck,legally...

that being said - in this economy there are newer, better condition boats at your price point that may be better to your liking..
 
#5 ·
Gut check yourself:
IF you would lose your deposit if you back out, would you still back out?
If the answer is "yes', then you have your answer.
That's a good yardstick.

However many many boats will need some reefing and sailplan adjustments at 20 knots of breeze, so that in itself is not so alarming - it's a matter of learning each boat's preferences.

Leaks can be fixed and sumps/bilges cleaned. The N33 yachtworld listings currently range from $23 - 36K so you're at the lower end of that scale. If somebody's sanded through the teak and holly sole, that's an eyesore that could cost close to $1K to fix, ammunition for perhaps yet another price adjustment.

If you can get past Jones' gut check, and feel you can do/get the work done, go from there.
 
#6 ·
He was fine with no deposit, but I'd be out the $800 for haul and survey. Things like the windows, wiring, water heater , stove repair (parts?) and sole I can do myself (mechanical engineer/woodworker). Here's a link to some pictures, tho you may still deem these "worthless" as there are none of the engine. Picasa Web Albums - Roger - Newport 33 - ... The bilge is actually clean, it's just the pan under the engine, which concerned me as it may indicate leaks.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Being out the survey fees is par for the course...

As a woodworker replacing the sole will not be onerous, just pricey ('teak & holly' plywood runs around $300/ sheet) It looks like the boat is in relatively good shape and clean, esp outside. A gasket set and a few days work may well address any leaks around the engine.

With a reasonable survey, this looks like quite a lot of boat for around $20K. Since you say it's larger than you intended to buy, the last thing is to be certain you can carry the increased costs of the larger boat (moorage, sails, lines, etc will all cost more)

That said, you're in an easy position with no real penalty for walking away - there's no shortage of boats for sale these days.
 
#8 ·
Sounds like about as reasonable a situation for a used boat as one is likely to get. Any used boat is going to have a list of maintenance/repair issues. the ones you mention are all minor - if these are all thee are, then you would be doing better than most used boat buyers...

Your difficulty with the strong breeze just sounds like getting used to it, most boats need a reef and a reduced jib as you get to 20 knots, and will become a handful if you have too much sail up. an i trust the seller wasn't on board to advise on boat handling?
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Your difficulty with the strong breeze just sounds like getting used to it, most boats need a reef and a reduced jib as you get to 20 knots, and will become a handful if you have too much sail up. an i trust the seller wasn't on board to advise on boat handling?
He was on board, and suggested reefing the genoa, which as I said seemed to do the trick. I was only concerned about this because I had read this was a problem with Newports. I don't have enough experience to say if this is a common trait, and its only a matter of proper sail trimming. Seems like that's the case. We reefed the main as well a bit later, and the handling seemed fine, not a lot of heel, and making 6 knots in gusts to 25.
 
#9 ·
I've been looking for 3 months at 28-30 footers, and I like this boat the most of the bunch for cockpit and cabin layout, sails and rigging, etc. If I buy a 30' for $16k, new sails and rigging (which all of the boats I've looked at could use) would put me over the cost of this boat. NOt to say that it doesn't need somethign expenive too.

Thanks for the input.
 
#11 ·
Pictures looked pretty good from what I could make out. I would guess you are just having some last minute second thoughts. That's pretty normal.

The list of pluses seem to out weigh the minuses. If a diesel starts easily and has a minimal amount of smoke, sounds good. Diesel oil is always black :)

It sounds you have a pretty good handle on the pricing and the market. Have you continued to look at others that are available?
 
#12 ·
Yes, I'm trying to get through the buyer's remorse before I commit... I've looked at Catalina 30s, various Islanders, even a Westsail 32 partnership (wasn't much fun on the bay), plus a lot of other boat ads I've checked out. The only comparable boat (33') is a Ranger 33 that showed up on Craigslist yesterday:
Ranger 33 Sailboat 1978
The new engine is enticing, along with the other new stuff. They seem to have a good rep, but the layout below doesn't look as nice. Also older.
Usually, as soon as I buy somthing all kinds of better deals show up...
 
#14 ·
First time boat buyers are in my opinion the hardest to please, their expectations can be unreasonable. I have seen more than one buyer pass on a great boat because of these expectations only to come back a month or so latter after veiwing other boats hoping to secure the original one that had been snapped up shortly after they pulled out of the deal.
 
#15 ·
sailorpilot. sight unseen it sounds like the po has been paying attention to the big things (sails, rigging) and that's usually a good sign. Whether the stove works isn't a stopper, you may have just missed a safety shut-off switch or a valve, in any case that's "just plumbing" of the repairable sort.

Reefing and heading up by 20 knots is also not unusual. If you can get hold of the VPPs for that boat from another owner, or in the worst case buy them from USSA, you'll get a better idea of what are the optimum points to reef at. The loft that made the last set of sails may also have some ideas and experience on that. MANY boats actually heel less and sail faster with a first reef in the main and jib down to 100% by 15 knots or so. How the N33 compares, I don't know, you'd have to ask around but it sounds reasonable.
 
#16 ·
It's mine!

So, I bought it Dec 1. So far, I'm really pretty happy. I really like the layout and feel of the cabin (and all the teak), the cockpit size and layout, how its equipped for the most part. Have only been out a few times (either raining or no wind this time of year), but it sails great in light conditions. Have been working on cleaning up a few things: saloon table -- replaced the hinges with heavier SS and widened the split leg, making it much more stable (used cherry and stained it to match as teak is $30/bd-ft (!!) and hard to come by in small pieces around here); glued various bits of broken teak trim; Fixed the AC outlets that all had hot and neutral reversed; added GFCIs; bought a new water heater to replace the long-dead one, but haven't started that yet. The biggest issue are the various leaks -- rain is getting in around the port saloon windows (I think) and somewere in the V berth. This spring I'll pull the windows and rebed them, but I need to figure out if its getting through the rubber or bedding. Not sure what to do if its the rubber; the aluminum frames are one piece of extrusion formed around the plexi and molded gasket. Looks like you'd have to bend the frame open to get at the rubber gasket. Am thinking of doing the shop vac and bagging trick to chase down the leaks. The stove burners work, but the oven's dead, needing both a new control valve and mercury valve. Not sure that's worth fixing; only remanufacturing is available for my CNG parts ($$). The wiring is the patchwork mess I guess you'd expect on a 27 yr old boat, but its got a nice charger, and all the lighting works (found out the masthead and steaming lights were replaced with LED units). Chasing the wiring isn't easy with the full liner. Lots of smallish projects to do, but there don't seem to be any big problems, so I think I did pretty well.

Hellosailor -- What's a VPP?
 
#17 ·
on my newport 30 I had the window leaks. It was coming through the rubber. I pulled out the rubber gasket and filled the space with black calk life. I smoothed it down to look like the rubber gasket, as I could not get it back in. Anyways the leaks are gone. The water was getting past the rubber and then coming through the wndow pane itself where it is held in place by the frame.
 
#18 ·
Thanks, I'll look more closely at the rubber. Did you pull out all of the rubber in chunks, or just the part to the sides of the plexi? Seems like if you pull it all out, there would be nothing to set the plexi position in the groove. There's a polyurathane sealant called Sikaflex that's used for mounting car windows that experimental aircraft builders use for mounting plexi canopies that I'm thinking might work well for this.
 
#19 ·
You can use SikaFlex; probably a good choice for this application. Where are you at with this job? I was in a similar situation when I bought my 41 5 years ago. Lots of expensive work done to the boat but needed some brightwork and going through.

On the issue of rounding up violently; try adding some rake to the mast. If you don't know how to do this I can give you some pointers. I had the same trouble with my 41 and the way I fixed it was by adding rake and bend which moved the center of effort aft. The forestay turnbuckle was almost all the way closed when I started making adjustment and a hanging halyard showed almost no aft rake or bend. When I finished I had almost 2' of combined aft rake/bend to a 55' mast. That's only a couple of degrees angle but it made a huge difference. The boat now sails balanced in almost all wind conditions without a reef unless it is gusting or it is above 25kts.
 
#20 ·
Haven't started the windows yet -- waiting for the weather (and the boat) to dry up. looking on the Sikaflewx website, it loos like they recommend having something to protect the compond from UV exposure, usually a plastic strip or something. Not sure how I would implement this.

Thanks for the info. I find this very interesting -- I don't claim to know much about boat dynamics, but it seems to me that moving the center of pressure rearward by adding rake would increase the tendency to pivot about the keel (larger moment arm), increase weatherhelm, and cause the rudder to stall (and a roundup) earlier. Not disputing that it works, I'm just trying to understand what's going on...

I have Harken roller reefing, and a split backstay with tensioner. I'm not sure what length adjustments I have.
 
#21 ·
If the center of effort of the sailplan is too far forward, the boat will try and round down first and then the leeway force on the keel will make the boat stand up and hook to windward (not exactly the same as a sail induced round up). The center of effort of both the sailplan and the keel must be in balance or you will have problems with rounding.

The newer harken furlers use the furling drum body as the turnbuckle. One lock nut is below the drum and another is beneath the torque tube. You need to detach the torque tube and raise the foil, release the locknuts then put a pair of vice grips (with a cloth between the jaws) on the swage of the shroud terminal. Then you rotate the furling drum to adjust the length of the forestay. The threads on the upper stud have dye-chem on the threads at the point where you should stop loosening it to have enough remaining threads into the drum. Go to the gear and maintenance forum and read about tuning the rig; if you have more questions you can post them here.

You might consider 3M 4200-UV for the window sealant.
 
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