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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#414 ·
Back to the Jeanneau 409 and the Bavaria 40. The interest on those two boats has been huge, from the press and from the public. Many boat tests were done and there are several good movies on the net (mostly from magazine boat tests). A good movie can give us a pretty good idea of the boat.

Both boats have very good details and some weak points. This time I am going to ask you guys to have a look at the movies and to post about what you find good, not so good and really bad. Kind of a static boat comparison on Sailnet, by the members that want to participate. Let's see what comes out:)

Bavaria 40:

YouTube - Bavaria Cruiser 40

YouTube - Hamnen.se testar Bavaria 40!

Jeanneau 409:

YouTube - Sun Odyssey 409.mov

Neustart mit der Sun Odyssey 409 - YACHT: YACHT tv

Regards

Paulo
 
#415 ·
Well, for me the Jeanneau wins the 'rowing test' battle ;)
 
#419 ·
There are things that in my opinion are better on the Bavaria:

The Galley is bigger and probably more functional, the boat seems rock solid (look at that guy doing gyms on the handrails), plenty of handrails, that big swimming platform is a lot larger than the one from the 409, the boat has a geenaker retractable boom and the possibility of having 4 winches on the sides (German sheeting for the main sail). It has also a very smart way to protect the outside plotter from weather and thieves and off course it has that Kevlar protection on the hull against impacts.

On the Jeanneau 49:

The interior and the outside have a better overall design, the boat is faster, with more sail and less weight, the lateral passage on the deck is much bigger, the Genoa winches are closer to the wheel.

More thoughts?

Regards

Paulo
 
#422 ·
Sorry Paulo, multi's do not do it for me, unless they are the open fast ones that race across oceans. Otherwise that little 10.5 that got this thread going is what i would call BP! off to marina and restaraunt, to see if the gale is in yet, along with snow falling......should be fun if happening. It was sunny and 40-45 knots saturday down there, water flying over the seewalls some 200-300' beyond..........nice to watch storms for the land sometimes!
 
#424 · (Edited)
XC 50 / Murtic 52 boat test and movie

I don't like fat cruising cats, but this one is not fat and it is certainly a cruising cat and a very fast one. The interior would be enough for me and... do you have seen that huge teak platform? Can you not imagine yourself sitting there on a tropical paradise, on a real deck chair drinking mojitos?:D

And this one is not a 10.5 sailing machine. It's more a 18K sailing one;) .

But I can understand that it is not your style. Your boatporn is more like This?:





or more modern, like this?:



Nah! I want the cat, and this one (put the movie in high def.):



Regards

Paulo
 
#425 · (Edited)
Salona 41 boat test

As a way of giving a better information about the boats posted on this thread, I am going to post links to independent boat tests, regarding those boats.

Kind of a second opinion;)

The first one will be about the Salona 41:

(post 398)



"SALONA have been steadily enhancing their reputation, sailing to considerable successes on the European race tracks with their 37 which was 'Boat of the Year' in 2007 and won many regattas including the Copa del Rey and more recently it took third spot at this year's ORCi worlds in Flensburg, Germany as also did the Salona 42 which was skippered by Croatia's former Finn Olympian Karlo Kuret, writes YL racing editor Andi Robertson.

The new J&J designed Salona 41 made an unmissable UK debut at the Southampton Boat Show. With loud '70s throwback graphics which would make Starsky & Hutch's toes curl, it was a cruel way to disguise one of the show's more interesting and exciting debut cruiser-racers.

Probably the least said about the graphics soonest mended, but suffice to say that they are only self adhesive, nothing a couple of hours with hairdryers and a scraper wouldn't sort.

Nevertheless, the 41 is a good looking, modern design which neatly delivers all that is required of an adaptable performance cruiser.

From wide sidedecks, sunbathing areas, a massive unobstructed cockpit, a sympathetic deck and coachroof line, to an easily achieved fast sailing performance and a simply executed but spacious and comfortable layout down below, the Croatian built Salona 41 is a most acceptable alternative to some of the big name continental and Scandinavian offerings at this size range.

The Salona 41 is built using an ultra modern vacuum bagged resin infusion process which produces a light, stiff, resistant hull.

Salona take considerable store from their use of a substantial stainless steel chassis which accepts the rig, mast and keel loads and this and other key areas are bolstered by e-glass triaxial laminate reinforcements. Below the waterline they use clear rather than white gelcoat.

......
She is a light, sprightly boat which accelerates smoothly and evenly and feels positive on the helm, but still appeared pretty stiff, ideal for fast short handed sailing.

There is a standard 140% furling genoa which would be well suited to the lighter summer winds off the Adriatic and Med, but we generally felt the boat moved well under the sail power we had and for long periods we had less than 10 knots of breeze accompanied by late summer Mediterranean sunshine.

Reaching in nine knots of breeze we were achieving 7.4-7.5 knots with a pleasing smooth wake, and little attention to the helm.

The boat tracks beautifully and the twin carbon wheels are great, offering excellent all round visibility. Shame we did not have a big reaching gennaker to get all excited with.

Certainly we were taken with the cockpit and generally with the ergonomics. The deep coamings around the cockpit give a good seat hold when the boat heels, or is heeled which rather compensates for the lack of foot or toe holds.
.....
We had a short beat back into Hamble with the offshore breeze puffing up to 15-16 knots with some obvious shifts and the Salona 41 really seemed to stay on her feet well, the deep high aspect rudder providing a feather light feel, but also positive grip.

She felt pretty quick, tacking neatly and efficiently with the small, non overlapping headsail making life easy for the short handed crew. The Salona 41 always felt manageable and pleasingly predictable with no nasty surprises.
....
Looking forward there is a well executed sprayhood recess rail which does not alter the deckline significantly. The coachroof offers a good halyard deck cover which is easily removed but does offer a wide, fairly flat sunbathing space.
...
On our test boat we especially liked the solid handholds. The galley is spacious with good stowage options and plenty of work space and opposite, the nav station is equally well appointed with a comfortable seating position. ....
The aft cabin is also well appointed for the size of boat this is, with good floor area and a little living space as well as good stowage. And at the bow the forward double cabin shows those same key values of space, light and comfort, being easily kept and maintained.

Overall we liked the Salona 41 a lot. From a company which is certainly one of the emerging strong brands, this is an exciting offering at an excellent price.

.....

Yachting Life
 
#427 ·
Yes, it is the same basic concept. The difference is that size permits a really comfortable cruising interior and also the seaworthiness to be an offshore boat even if this seems to me like a sail machine not to be put in the hands of a novice sailor.

I guess that with some wind you can only put the power on if you have your hands on the sheets and that at night, or when you are occupied with another thing, you better reef those sails.:D

But as have said an old (70 year) Dragonfly cruiser to a friend of mine when he asked him if that was not a too powerful sailing boat for him: Well, I can go slower, but you cannot go faster:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#428 · (Edited)
Beneteau Oceanis 37 boat tests

As a way of giving a better information about the boats posted on this thread, I am going to post links to independent boat tests, regarding those boats.

Kind of a second opinion ;)

The second one will be about the Beneteau (Oceanis) 37:

(posts 306 and 314)



"Beneteau took a good look at the basics when designing the new Oceanis 37. The result is a sociable, solid performing cruising yacht, says Andi Robertson
...
While sometimes subtle refinements and a few clever ideas are enough to move forward with a new model within a range of cruising yachts, with the Océanis 37 it was a back to basics look at the working areas of the boat. It is this that sets the new Finot Conq design apart from its rivals.

Interior comforts are a given, but it was the cockpit area which the Beneteau revisited from the basics. They took the desire to maximise safe seating space in the cockpit as perhaps the key element of the boat's designed layout and ergonomics.
....
The new Océanis 37, like her latest stablemates, has a lovely, simple interior by Italy's Nauta Design, but it was the layout and the efficient performance of the hull by Groupe Finot which sets her apart, leading something of a new concept in fast cruisers.

There are two immediately striking aspects to the new Océanis 37,..: the modern hull lines which in many respects echo aspects of the powerful Open class style boats for which Finot Conq are so well known, but still offering modern, sympathetic lines and a subtle coach roof and deck-line. From the stern quarters it is not hard to see the Class 40 style lines with maximum beam carried well aft, forming a broad powerful stern.

As well as being the ultimate family cruiser this is a boat which is well set up for short handed, easy sailing with a good, big overlapping genoa set on a roller furler and, on our test boat, a simple stacking style mainsail.

So as well as being a boat the whole family can cruise extensively together, there is the capacity to easily sail it for miles short handed on 'deliveries', when the whole team is not available, returning to base short handed or heading to a more exotic location short handed.
......
The cockpit table is excellent as is the wheel and pedestal, but it is the flip up liferaft locker on the port quarter which is a really clever innovation. Supported on a gas strut, literally the whole back quarter of the stern lifts to cockpit floor level to house the liferaft.

There are three big other lockers. On the opposite side is a sail locker, which looked a little tight to keep a dinghy in, even well deflated.
.....
Sadly we only had a light breeze to sail the Océanis 37. But there was enough to learn that this is an easily driven and easily handled performer.
In a light sea breeze the new 37 answered the smallest puffs and was quick enough to build control and steerage.
....
A consensus quickly develops when with a posse of like minded media testers on board we were pleasantly surprised by how well the Océanis 37 sails.
...
The day's enjoyment on the new 37 was completed with the 90sq.m asymmetric gennaker. It really pushed the boat along quite pleasantly requiring minimum attention and would take the breeze forward of the beam with ease. Under the circumstances it was a perfect scenario, gently drawing a clean wake across the flat Mediterranean Sea on a warm February day.
......
Down below the Océanis is excellent in every living department. With no fewer than 14 windows or ports of all shapes and sizes there is a lovely light, airy feel. There are two layout options, one with a pair of symmetrical double aft cabins, and one with one single athwart-ships owner's aft cabin. But so too, the big, spacious forecabin is fantastic with lots of headroom and a small vanity unit or desk.
The new boats have deep, well protected overhead windows in the roof which afford lots of light.
....
The galley too, is great with a big, forward opening fridge unit and big twin stainless sinks. There are two large cupboards and four closed shelved systems. While we like the effect of wood closures to shelf fronts, we also appreciate that plexiglass allows you to see what is in the shelves without opening them.
...
Overall we'd concur with France's Voile magazine that, for its size and purpose, the Océanis is a boat of the year for 2008. For cruising, and even the odd local race, ...in real comfort, in the Océanis 37."

Yachting Life

The latest sailboat from the world's most prolific builder is a near perfect example of why Beneteau is the world's most prolific builder. It understands the market. It knows what we want in a boat and it delivers it to us time after time. This new model, the Beneteau 37, is stylish and clean on deck, the interior is comfortable and thoughtfully laid out, it performs very well but is also easy to sail and to maintain, and it's affordable. Manufactured in South Carolina, there's little doubt that Beneteau has launched another best-seller. ...
I took a brand-spanking-new 37 out for a SAILING Magazine Boat Test after the Miami Boat Show. The midmorning breezes were fickle but that didn't stop us from shutting down the engine as soon as we cleared the dock and working our way south on the ICW under sail. The boat is extremely nimble and, I confess, we were showing off a bit by quick-tacking across the 200-yard channel. Overtaking the powerboats putting along in the No Wake zone was rather nice. Once we had a bit of breathing room, we eased the sheets and sped along at 6-plus knots. The apparent wind was 8 knots.

The 37 combines the established talents of naval architects from Groupe Finot with elegant interior styling from Milan-based Nauta Design. The result is a thoroughly modern look that marries form and function in a very user-friendly package. ....

Beneteau has a proven construction philosophy that might be summed up like this: Build rock solid fiberglass hulls with balsa-cored decks; use interior molded pieces to streamline production; use scale purchasing power to offer savings that other builders can't match; and finally, finish boats out to a high standard. Despite building more boats than any other company, Beneteau gets the details right. The new 37 has superb fiberglass sculpting throughout. The intricate diamond pattern nonskid that offers excellent traction but is easy on the feet is one of many examples.

...This is a long-winded way of saying that the new Beneteau 37 is efficient on all points of sail right out of the box, or right off the dock.
....
The cockpit is quite wide and very comfortable. The 37 doesn't have much taper to the hull shape, holding its beam well aft. The wheel is located well aft and at the helm you feel like you're sitting on the transom. I like this perspective. It gives you a full view of the sails and a direct connection to the rudder. When you give the leather-covered 36-inch wheel a small turn the boat responds immediately. There are three cockpit lockers, including a huge sail locker to starboard. ...

The external chain locker forward is deep and large enough to carry an honest amount of ground tackle. The stanchions support double lifelines and the pulpits on both ends of the boat are robust. ....

The interior is surprisingly bright and airy. I say this because the sleek deck profile would not suggest this result below. However, every living space has a minimum of one natural light and air source. Also, bright white molded pieces help to keep things light. The layout is practical and the finish is lovely. ..
...
Access to the aft cabin is through the galley. Billed as the guest cabin, it is roomy and includes a genuine double berth and hanging locker. The head and nav station are opposite the galley to port. The head includes a stall shower and is more spacious than heads in older model Beneteaus. .. Most 37s will include a microwave oven above the chart table.

The portlights flood the saloon with light, and seem bigger below than from on deck. The hull ports also add light and sense of space. Opening portlights and a large overhead hatch afford terrific ventilation.

The owner's cabin is forward. I was surprised to find that there's plenty of headroom, 6 feet, 3 inches to be precise, and that adds to the spacious feel of this comfortable cabin. ...There is a lot of stowage with a hanging and shelved locker to starboard and large lockers below the berth. Another big overhead hatch and bright and efficient halogen lights make this cabin user-friendly.

There's enough water tankage to avoid installing a watermaker right away. All together there's 98 gallons with tanks under the aft bunk, and the forward section of the forward bunk. ...

A 29-horsepower Yanmar diesel is very fuel efficient and provides enough power to push the 37 along at more than 6 knots in protected waters. Truthfully, the boat sails so well, and is so easy to sail, the engine will primarily be used for getting in and out of the marina. The 52-gallon fuel tank will likely last all season. ...

Under sail
Back on Biscayne Bay the wind remained fickle. Bringing the boat hard up on the wind it accelerated smartly. Pinching high, 35 degrees apparent, we kept the boat moving. The 37 is a sailor's boat, you can feel the rudder at all times and the boat talks to you. If you get a bit too high you know it immediately and a modest correction gets you back in the groove. I like a boat that you sail by the seat of your pants and by the wind on your face, not just by instruments. ...

The new Beneteau 37 is destined for success. Despite the weak dollar, the base price of $139,900 makes the boat a great value. ..

Sailing Magazine | Beneteau 37

For this 37-footer, designers Finot/Conq gave the hull a beamy stern and a high-performance keel (a backwards L in profile) made of cast-iron. They placed the chainplates and shrouds right out on the gunwales, providing good support for the mast, an arrangement that limits the length of the headsail and so restricts the area. This makes the headsail relatively easy to tack, a good idea on a family boat; a good idea on any boat, for my money?anything to reduce the drudgery of winching.

This rig layout is standard practice on grand prix boats, but it also works well on cruisers because it is simple. The mast needs to be a little taller to recover some of the sail area lost by the small headsail, but the wide shroud base helps support it.

Modern accommodation
The accommodation layout is classic modern, an owner's cabin forward, two double cabins aft. This boat's stern is so wide that in the starboard aft cabin the berth is almost as wide as it is long. And you can lie in bed and watch the waves astern, through the opening port in the transom, a luxury enjoyed by the likes of Cook and Flinders and Bligh, but few yachtsmen since.

More than 20 years ago Beneteau invented the user-friendly galley. More accurately they introduced design details which made life easier for sailors and they still come up with new ideas for interiors. In the benchtop there's an icebox which doubles as a crockery storage. You can put the beer here, or if you want to sail before you do the washing up, stick the dishes in here.

And another new idea: Behind the settee is a small table lamp. You can lift it out and take it upstairs and plug it into a socket in the cockpit table for atmospheric dining al fresco.

There's a third new idea: A clear washboard lives in a groove beneath the main hatch. Pull it aft and it drops down into place. Easy to do when closing up after a sail, and it encourages you to do it early if the weather's getting nasty, rather than put it off until the cook is getting wet. And the fridge is a surprise, a domestic model with shelves in the front-opening door.

Setting sail
This Oceanis has a big cockpit. It is wide and it is long, not always the case with European boats. This feature alone makes this an 'Aussie' boat.
The wheel is big but there are cutouts in the cockpit seats so you can walk around easily. Alongside the helmsman the portside seat lifts up to take a small inflatable tender, or the liferaft.

The Harken #44 headsail winches are near the wheel and can be reached by the helmsman. On the coachroof are the winches, which handle all the boat's control lines. ..

The 30hp Yanmar (with shaft drive) is quiet and easily pushes the hull up to 7.3 knots and still accelerating. ...

Easy to steer
This Oceanis's steering is as good as it gets. It is light but not too light, and quite high-geared; ...

Easing her to windward in a fitful sou'wester was an absolute joy, made easier by the fact that I could see the telltales from the wheel's windward side. The teak foot supports are big. I would like to tell you more but the morning's sharp offshore breeze was squeezed out as the day warmed up, and we ran out of wind. The Oceanis has only a modest amount of sail, but she did well in the light breeze.

Single-handing is easy. The skipper can reach the headsail winches, and Brendan let her sail herself for minutes at a time in the breeze as he fiddled with the gear. It was his first sail on this brand-new boat.

Price? The base figure is $285,000, a little below market standard for this size.
....

Motion of the ocean - Boat Tests - Modern Boating Magazine - Australia's leading boating and sailing magazine - Modernboating.com.au

Regards

Paulo
 
#429 ·
THIS IS THE THREAD OF THE YEAR FOR ME! THANKS PAULO.
But I'm getting bummed out. I'm currently up in the northern sector of the North Sea with a VERY slow internet connection...I can't watch the video's. Pictures are good though!
 
#432 · (Edited)
First 30 boat tests



Thanks Nemier:)







Voiles et Voiliers : Essais et comparatifs - Video voile, first 30 Bénéteau*: bande annonce de l'essai complet







Continuing that second opinion about the boats posted on this thread, let's see what others say about the the new First30.

The First 30 is very different, not surprising since it is the brainchild of innovative designer Juan K, who seems to be very hot right now, his boats are winning all over the place. We were told by others who had seen it that we should be prepared to be both wowed and surprised. Wowed by how good it was, and surprised by how it differed from the norm. They were correct.

Upon walking up to the boat you realize that this is one very large boat for its length, but that really it is like two boats in one. Standing at the mast and looking forward, it looks like a 30 footer at most, since the forward part of the boat is narrow. But turn around and look aft and you would think you are on a boat ten feet longer because it is so wide.
....

First, the boat is big and behaves like a bigger boat under sail or power. The cockpit is enormous. The deck hardware is excellent. The engine is really smooth and quiet, amazingly so. There are plenty of sail controls and two come to mind as being especially nice. The jib in-haulers are easily adjustable from the weather side, and the Harken adjustable jib cars could be readily moved with the standard tackles even in the 20 knots of air we had. Winches were plenty big. I was worried about the short tiller, but the boat is so easily balanced that we had plenty of mechanical advantage and you can steer from several different positions. ...

Before we talk about sailing the boat we'll mention the interior, which was another pleasant surprise. Very nicely finished, roomier than expected, and with more headroom than expected. This boat has a very usable cabin, galley, head and sleeping areas, with good ventilation as well. ... What we have is a boat that can be enjoyed for multiple uses, and that also makes for better resale value down the road.

As nice as the boat is on deck and below, and as nicely fitted-out as it is, the real purpose of the First 30 is to go sailing. We were hoping that over the course of the day we might have some varying conditions so we could test the boat over a range of wind. What we got was 15-20 knots of fairly steady strong breeze all day in advance of a front. T... 99% of the time we sailed the boat is lots of wind. And that is the good news, the First 30 was a blast to sail in that stuff.

... I am accustomed to the helm really loading up on boats with a wide transom, but on the First 30 the helm was still very nice when heeled. When you crack off and head downwind the wide aft section is now in the water, and so are both rudders. Loads of stability and steering control on this point of sail. I should also add that the boat has a hard chine that also improves stability.

The First 30 is designed to be sailed heeled when going upwind, and it will be fastest when doing so. However, you can reef the boat and sail with less heel and it balances really well. In the morning we went out with full main and jib in 20 knots of air. While the boat handles it, it was more comfortable later in the day when we rolled up part of the jib and reefed the main. The speed seemed to be at least as good, and the boat just loved it. Another surprise was how well the boat handled the chop, which grew larger and steeper as the day wore on. We never once felt the boat slap or pound, which seems crazy considering the hull shape, but the design of the plumb bow is different from what you have seen before. Juan K obviously knows a thing or two about making a boat go through waves. We had a blast sailing the boat and we hated to come in and rush back to the airport.

The overall impression of sailing the boat in breeze is that it feels bigger than it is, very solid, very easily controlled, and fun to sail. We only got the spinnaker up for maybe 10 minutes because we had to meet someone at the dock, but it was a really fun ride (before we lost one of the sheets and had to take it down).

Scuttlebutt - Sailing Forum: INDUSTRY NEWS: Boats: Beneteau First 30

Feedback from initial sea trials was highly positive from those involved, and Ingouf, although understandably partial, is excited with what they've come up with. "It's a boat that's well balanced," he says. "You never have the feeling you're losing control. It's light, balanced and stiff."

In winds up to 20 knots, he says, they were still using the entire sailplan. "What's really impressed me is the way it goes through the chop. It doesn't pitch at all."

Boat Review: The Beneteau First 30 Goes Modern | Sailing World

The new First 30 is a bold choice for one of the largest sailboat builders in the world. An entirely new design by Juan Kouyoumdjian (with technical input from double Vendee Globe winner Michel Desjoyeaux), it features twin rudders, torpedo keel, full-width traveller and no backstay.

As the rockstar designer du jour, getting Juan K to take on a moderately priced 30-foot sailboat is a major coup. (for those who don't know, Juan K is perhaps best known as the designer of the 2005 Volvo 70 winners, ABN Amro 1 and 2. Then he designed the winner of the 2008 - 2009 Volvo Ocean Race, Ericsson 4.)

Juan's influence is heavily felt on this boat, working within the parameters set by Beneteau. You see it in the shape of the hull, with the short, fixed bowsprit, wide hips and blunt bow. The aggressive rig. The full-width traveller in the stern, and gross and fine-tune controls on the mainsheet. The foot-braces on the deck. The First 30 is optimised for IRC racing, with a choice of aluminum or carbon rigs, at least in Europe.

.. this is a fast boat. Torpedo keel, wide stern designed for surfing, and aggressive rig (SA/D ratios of around 25). We'll have to see how the rating turns out (preliminary IRC is 1.001, or about 92 PHRF), but overall, the boat promises to be a fantastic downwind ride, while being fast enough upwind for you to enjoy it. I'd expect this to be a good choice in any venue which gets 15 to 20 knots regularly due to its surfing potential.

I really like the twin rudders - these add great control while being heeled over, while also eliminating vibration from the prop wash on a traditional, single rudder. Of course, you can't direct the thrust of the 20 horsepower saildrive in the same way, but with a boat of this small size, you have pretty good control manuevering. The twin rudders also help the boat maneuver under sail.

The boat sails well, too. In our 6 to 10 knots, both uphill and downhill, it almost sailed itself. Even when relatively powered up with a big asym chute, you could let go of the beefy tiller and it would continue on its own.

The sail control systems are fantastic. Really love the traveller - full width (and I do mean full - check out those photos) - and with easy-to-use control lines. No backstay at all - use the traveller, the mainsheet, vang sheeting, and, ultimately, a reef if it is over 20. Low-profile roller furler on the jib is another nice touch - lets you put a little more sail area on it down low.

... the sailing setup is one of the best I've seen.

What about cruising? ... This boat has a real interior. The overall design down below is well executed. This is a good layout. Aft head, forward main cabin, quarterberth for kids or race crew. It works. To have a full navigation station, forward stateroom with standing room and closing doors, and kitchen on a 30 foot race boat is impressive. Six feet of head room, including in the head / shower. And there is good storage in the starboard quarter due to the wide beam. Remarkable.
....
For cruising, the sail controls actually work pretty well too. There is a full six feet of headroom in the cockpit under the boom - an important safety issue. No backstays simplifies the controls. The big cockpit is comfortable for guests, with wide sitting area for the driver or for lounging in the cockpit. No traveller to step over, either. ....
....

Fuel and water will be limited, but this isn't a boat you're likely to sail across an ocean.

Conclusions
This is an impressive boat. The more you look at it, the more you realize the design team really put a lot of effort into getting the systems right for sailors. Go though the Pro list - they nailed all the key sail handling systems. On the down side, this is a production boat built to a price point. You see that down below with cabinetry and a look and feel which is on par, but not better than the typical Beneteau offering. This is a good looking interior, but not one built with a price-no-object ethos.

In the end, it is all about value. With a base price of $100,000, plus an extra $25k for sails and electronics, this is a lot of bang for your buck. You can't get a good 10-year-old J/105 for that. Compare to the Jenneau SunFast (PHRF around 81, at $182,000 sailaway), and the J/95 (PHRF 109, at $179,000 with the carbon rig, including $20k of sails, electronics and delivery fees). In the end, you could take this boat out for the weekend series with the race crew, and then cruise with a family for a week.

Beneteau First 30 Review | North American Sailor

Regards

Paulo
 
#433 · (Edited)
Compare Polar Diagram

Hi guys!
So regarding such fast boats I have another question:
I currently wonder about polar diagrams and the difference between such a boat with a wide, flat stern like a first 30 or a pogo and a more conventional hull shape.
It's always said that boats like a Pogo are fast downwind but rather slow when sailing close to the wind.

Now, when comparing the polar diagrams of a Pogo 12.50 and a First 40 I see that the Pogo seems to be even faster close to the wind.
So do I understand the attached data correctly? And is such data usually trustworthy or in many cases exaggerated?
In the real life the First 40 is may be faster in many situations, or not?

Ulf

See Pogo 12.50 on the top and First 40 below.
 

Attachments

#434 · (Edited)
Pogo 12.50, Opium 39, Dufour 40e - Match with movie.

Hi guys!
...
It's always said that boats like a Pogo are fast downwind but rather slow when sailing close to the wind.

Now, when comparing the polar diagrams of a Pogo 12.50 and a First 40 I see that the Pogo seems to be even faster close to the wind.
So do I understand the attached data correctly? And is such data usually trustworthy or in many cases exaggerated?
In the real life the First 40 is may be faster in many situations, or not?

Ulf

....
Who says that?

Regarding the polars they consider flat water. With waves, probably the First will drag less water and certainly will be more comfortable , but I doubt that it will be faster, at least with all the winds. Anyway the difference will not be big.

You should read this boat test:



They have made a comparison between a Dufour 40e, an Opium 39 and a Pogo 40 cruising (12.50 prototype). The wind was a good force 5 and the sea had short waves. Close to the wind the speed were the same (7.5), with the Opium (with a worst sail, the original was stolen) making less 5º to the true wind.

They have said that the Dufour is a little better with winds lighter than 20K and the Pogo a bit better over 20k. The Dufour is more comfortable and passes better the short waves, the Pogo passes in power (I believe that is why he needs more wind to be faster than the Dufour).

Downwind the Pogo rules with 12k with the other boats making 8/9K. But regarding VMG dead downwind the VMG of the Dufour with spinnaker is about the same was the one of the Pogo with geenaker.

Regards

Paulo
 
#437 · (Edited)
Big cruising multihulls.

Yes you are right, I have looked at cats but I lost interest. Not enough money:rolleyes:

For being seaworthy enough to be ocean capable they have to be big (45ft). I mean there are some smaller cats that are seaworthy but they carry small rigs and they are not fast. Resuming, they are out of my budget. If I remember correctly interesting boats start at 600 000€.

Most cats (mainly the big production French ones) are designed to be at anchor at the marina or for coastal cruising. They have big cabins that will got plenty of wind, drift a lot and go badly close to the wind.

There are some French ones, like the Sig 45 (and others), some South African like the Gunboats and some from New-Zealand and Australia that are built with other philosophy and I like those a lot, even if they have to be sailed with more care than you sail an oceangoing monohull. But as I have said, these ones are not only out of my budget as they limit the places I can visit. I mean, lot's of old ports and small marinas in Europe just don't have the place for cats, and when they have you pay double price...and here marinas are expensive. But if you plan to sail out of Europe in remote and nice places and have the money for it, they are a good option.

High Performance Multihull Sailing Yachts, Gunboat Luxury Catamarans
High performance yachts
Fusion Catamarans - Kit Catamarans, Sail Catamarans, Power Catamarans
Catamaran Outremer - Les catamarans pour le Grand Voyage
TOURNIER MARINE - Catamarans - Multicoques - Trimarans - Freydis - Location - Carbon line

I have looked with more interest to trimarans because those are more forgiving and you can have a smaller and fast one(comparing with cats) with oceangoing potential. Smaller means less expensive and some can fold their arms and fit in a monohull place in a marina, but in the end the problem is the same: Too expensive and I believe that you would find these ones too small for you. Contrary to cats, a Trimaran is smaller than a comparable sized monohull, with exception from the one that Dan have, but they don't make that one bigger enough for mine or your needs.

TOURNIER MARINE - Catamarans - Multicoques - Trimarans - Freydis - Location - Carbon line
Webs - Free website, free hosting, free webpage - Make a web site with photo albums, blogs, videos, forums and more!
Dragonfly Trimarans by Quorning Boats of Denmark | DRAGONFLY 1200 Presentation

Regards

Paulo
 
#438 ·
OK, got it.
I've been looking around for over a year and I had more or less come to the same conclusion. But still looking, always looking. When our boat sells - hopefully some time next year, I'll be able to get much more serious. The B F30, is a personal choice (for me) if my wife and I do not make it cruising, for whatever reason. Cheers. :)
 
#439 · (Edited)
Xc 38

New Xp 38 on the way. This is a very beautiful boat and I will bet that it is going to be a great boat. I hate not to have money to buy one:(









"The eagerly anticipated Xp 38 is set to debut late summer 2011.
Following on from the Xp 44, the Xp 38 will encompass the same ground-breaking performance characteristics whilst maintaining the cruising qualities X-Yachts customers have grown to expect.

The new Xp 38 is a resized model of the Xp 44 which is still under development and yet sold in more than 20 copies - 5 months before planned launch.

The Xp range will be built with the use of advanced technology and can be characterized as trendsetting in the yachting industry.

Performance
The new Xp 38 has been developed utilizing the latest version of a Velocity Prediction Program to create a hull and rig package with a high ballast to weight ratio that offers high stability under a generous sail plan.

Together with her sail-handling design, the Xp 38's performance may be easily enjoyed by a full race crew or whilst sailing short-handed.

Safety and Speed
X-Yachts' world-class build quality is taken to a new level in the Xp models, using the latest epoxy E-Glass vacuum infusion process for maximum strength, stiffness and durability.
The famous X-Yachts steel frame structure has also been developed, with the new Xp designs featuring a carbon/composite keel grillage that ensures hull impact resilience and rig stability for safety and longevity.
....

Hull length 11.58m 37.99ft LWL 10.36m 33.99ft Beam 3.70m 12.14ft
Draft - standard 2.10m 6.89ft Draft - deep 2.40m 7.87ft
Ballast - standard 2,760kg 6,085lbs Displacement - light 6,410kg 14,131lbs
Engine diesel 29.0HP Water tank standard 260 Ltr 68.8 Gal
Fuel tank standard 150 Ltr 39.6 Gal
SAIL AREAS standard (Preliminary) Mainsail (Alloy Rig) 46.2m2 497.0ft2
Mainsail (Carbon Rig) 48.0 m2 517.0ft2 Genoa · 106% 39.5m2 393.0ft2
Spinnaker - All purpose 130m2 1399ft2

The first series of 10 units are being offered for an introduction price of € 217,500 (ex VAT)

Xp 38

Regards

Paulo
 
#440 ·
Nice.... shame about the price! (guessing that's not the Carbon rig?)

I like:
Robust 'sprit' (although it's going to 'up' the moorage bill)
Clean deck layout with 'german' sheeting
Their resistance to joining the 'cats eyes' trend for the portlights, and not going with an 'arch'.

I've always liked the look of Xyachts' use of multiple boot stripes - it's a great way to 'visibly' lower freeboard. Hanses could benefit from that treatment.
 
#441 · (Edited)
Nice.... shame about the price! (guessing that's not the Carbon rig?)

...
:D :D :D :D That's the price with aluminum rig. Carbon rig is an extra ...more or less 35 000€ (normally including an upgrade kit on all deck hardware and carbon pole - top racing kit).

Regarding prices, from the same family of boats (stell frame, comparable hull and speed and a decent cruising interior) you have First X yacht than the slightly less expensive Arcona and then the less expensive Salona. I would be happy if I can raise the money to have a Salona;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#445 · (Edited)
Dufour 40e

Slap,

I am still around. I will pick the airplane to Paris in the afternoon:)

Thanks for posting.

You are right, we should have already talked more about the Dufour 40e. It is one of my favorite boats.

Dufour 40E - Dufour 40E Sailboat - Boat factsheet

Take a look at the interior virtual tour, this boat has one of the best cruising interiors among what is commonly called cruiser racers. That cruiser potential is also revealed by the best tankage in its class: 360L of water and 200L of fuel is two times more than what offer some other boats and almost as much as some dedicated cruisers.

http://www.dufour-yachts.com/medias/download/A11_Descriptif_standard_40E_EN.pdf

And you are right also about the winches. This boat, more than been developed in a way to maximize all its racing potential (like the First 40) is by design more oriented for performance cruising and the place where the winches are is a proof of that. Those winches are located, not in the best place for being used by a full crew, but in the best place for being used by a solo sailor:D

The fact that the boat, being cruising oriented, is still a top racing contender says a lot about its design quality. I would have preferred a more modern transom, but that is just a small unimportant remark and a personal one.

As you know, Dufour is now a member of Bavaria Group. I hope that will make possible a better pricing policy, making it less expensive than other great boats, like the Elan 410 or the Salona 41. If that boat had the same price of the First 40....I guess almost all, except pure hard racers, would opt for the Dufour;)

Sail Reviews the Dufour 40E | Daily Sailing News from North American Sailor











Regards

Paulo
 
#446 ·
Hey Slap, nice one. The 40e is a lovely looking bit of kit. Galley would be a bit bigger if I had my way.

We've talked about this before on this thread but I find it surprising that French boats so often have relatively small galleys.

What can I say, I like to cook.


otoh....what do we reckon ? Diya seem a tad Spammish to anyone else ? Says he/she is from the USA, links profile to a commercial website and IP address is out of India. Diya...this is your chance to explain all that.
 
#447 ·
Hey Slap, nice one. The 40e is a lovely looking bit of kit. Galley would be a bit bigger if I had my way.

We've talked about this before on this thread but I find it surprising that French boats so often have relatively small galleys.

What can I say, I like to cook.
I don't care for the nav station - it doesn't look like there is a good way to brace yourself into it. Also, I prefer galleys that are J shaped and not L shaped - so you can brace yourself better on port tack.
 
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